| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Arsillus 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7374
|
 Posted: July 18 2007 at 20:27 |
|
Prog's not dead. It took the back burner for a while, but it's made a steady resurgence that's still going. Now's a great time to be a prog fan. Those albums in the poll above show the decline of the first wave, but prog isn't dead.
|
 |
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 20:32 |
 bluetailfly wrote:
I know what you mean here, but I think you're crediting those journalists/critics with WAY too much power to influence events. These journalists just jumped on trends that were already building up. Their journalism might have been a component, but I think it is more of a "trailing" indicator of what was inevitiably going to happen. Journalists couldn't have "saved" golden age prog or kept it going much longer than it already had gone. It had fully developed it's sound and vision and ethos. |
I cannot speak for the situation in the USA at that time, but in the UK the paradigm shift within Rock Journalism was initially driven by the NME and Sounds (then later by The Melody Maker) in early 1976 while Progressive Rock was at its peak - a few years before all but one of the albums listed in this poll were even released. This was when these music papers stopped reporting trends and started opinionating and distorting the facts. At the 1976 and 1977 Reading Rock Festivals no one in the audience was remotely interested in Punk rock - we hated it with a passion, yet that wasn't the impression you got from those Music papers. Although they probably stopped short of telling blatant lies, they still did so by ommision, for example by failing to mention crowd sizes at gigs: 20 people at a Pistols gig in Manchester vs a completely sold-out performance by The Enid at the Roundhouse were reported as if the attendance figures were the other way around.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that what was written had any effect on the established names of Prog Rock - the effect they had was in stopping any emergent bands from following the prog-route, because to do so whould have been commercial suicide because the press was against them. Just look at how many of the New-wave bands did a complete volt-face at that time - various members of the Dammed, the Clash, the Stranglers, Ultravox! and the Police had started in prog bands.
We will never know whether these Journalists could have saved prog, or kept it going because they where instrumental in burying it.
|
|
What?
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65250
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 20:46 |
|
the b*****ds
|
|
DethMaiden
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 105
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 22:10 |
No album killed prog because prog isn't dead.
But And then There Were Three killed Genesis. Damn you Phil!
|
|
sircosick
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 29 2007
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 1264
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 22:11 |
TheProgtologist wrote:
Prog isn't dead,but alive and kicking.
So I pick none of them. |
I think you meant "prog wasn't dead at that time (80's)"....... because prog is hardly alive & kickin' actually...  Note: To place "Discipline" on this list is a blasphemy 
|
|
The best you can is good enough...
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65250
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 22:17 |
I've always felt in ten or fifteen years time, we will look back on this period as a second golden age in Prog.. it's just hard to see cause we're still in it.
|
|
explodingjosh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 507
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 22:48 |
Atavachron wrote:
I've always felt in ten or fifteen years time, we will look back on this period as a second golden age in Prog.. it's just hard to see cause we're still in it.
|
Yea.... and I wasn't alive during the first era.... but when I compare today's bands and their output with that of dinosaurs, I feel the same way. Anyways, Tales from Topo (I like alot) and Works Vol. 1/2 (not so much) are my suspects.
|
|
docsolar
Forum Groupie
Joined: January 07 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 73
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 23:21 |
Yes' Tormato. All hope was lost... 
Edited by docsolar - July 18 2007 at 23:22
|
|
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65250
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 23:43 |
|
Tormato is a great album overall
|
|
Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
|
Posted: July 18 2007 at 23:50 |
|
^ I agree!
|
|
|
|
bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 00:30 |
BaldFriede wrote:
bluetailfly wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
bluetailfly wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Interesting idea here!  But I beg to differ on your choices.
The first four on your list look like the perfect culprits. You may want to include all of Curved Air and most of the post Carnegie Hall Renaissance albums.
Thhe next few are from the 80's and prog was already in a coma, so they don't count.
The Wall and ATOTT are not top be put in such a list, though |
Ah no, not all of Curved Air; they made some wonderful albums. The Wall completely belongs there; why, in my opinion "Animals" already belongs there. Pink Floyd just couldn't get their asses in motion in the passages that were supposed to be kicking.
Some Zappa albums belong there too, in my opinion; there was a period (after "Zoot Allures") in which he had nothing original to contribute. His "Joe's Garage" trilogy just stinks, in my opinion.
|
Baldfriede, I know we butted heads on this earlier, but I think it's an pretty clear to prog historians that Animals was one of the best albums Pink Floyd ever made, and one of the best prog albums ever made. If anything, it strengthened prog at a time when prog needed it.
In fact, I would like to have a dialogue in this very forum with anyone who believes Animals in any way represents the "death" of prog or even a dropping off of quality for the Floyd. Not that I want to argue; I just want to understand in clear terms where someone who holds that view is coming from.
For example, Meddle is a great Floyd album. Animals is not that different from it. In many ways what makes Meddle successful is more fully developed on Animals.
I'm sure there are one or two persons out there who don't like Animals; but I don't think one could argue that it contributed to the death of prog like Love Beach did. |
Bluetailfly, you should have seen the music press reactions to "Animals" in Germany, then you would think differently. They simply tore it apart. And it is clear to see why. The songs just don't kick enough ass.
|
Well, rock critics are notoriously catty and nationalistic, so I don't put too much stock in what they have to say.
And, as to the songs "don't kick ass", I am rendered speechless by this outlandish perception of this music. I'm dazed. I have to go home now |
Well, let me put it another way then. There is the German word "betulich", which perfectly describes these songs: A bit circumspect, a bit slow, and most of all harmless. I personally was severely disappointed with "Animals"; Punk had just given some much needed adrenaline back to rock. Not that I was a fan of punk, but if one looks at the prog albums that were created around this time it is obvious that the bands had forgotten how to really rock. It is the same for albums like "Wind and Wuthering" or "90125". The leaders of the wolf pack had lost their teeth; it was obvious something had to be done.
|
Well, it's clear you don't like PF's Animals, and that's fine, to each her own. But what I find jarringly incongruous here is that you've described "Animals" as an album that doesn't "kick ass" when it contains probably the best hard rock guitar work by any rock guitarist I have ever heard, and I have heard all the great ones.
Gilmour's work on "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" is an overwhelming musical experience. It's like Gilmour was possessed by demons or something when he played that piece, like he's channeling the screams and cries of the angst-ridden damned, like he's speaking in the tongues of extremely tortured souls. I could go on but the bottom line is every time I hear his work on that song, I am emotionally and physically exhausted. It overloads my aethetic sensibility to almost the breaking point. It is a sheer sonic firestorm.
So, I disagree. It does kick ass. It obliterates ass. It vaporizes ass. No punk band has ever come close to the anarchic energy in that guitar work. Not one.
But also, Animals does much more. I'm mean PF is not ZZ Top. PF intends to do much more with their music than kick ass, and they succeed in doing that with Animals as well. Astounding soundscapes on that album, again probably the best I have heard of any band that has attempted soundscapes.
Waters lyrics, outstanding. And on and on. The album is freakin' amazing.
Thank you. 
|
|
"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
|
|
BroSpence
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2614
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 00:35 |
|
Time killed Prog's popularity. It was not bad albums by prog artists, or punk rock (as many people love to use as a scapegoat). It was time and time alone. The population has no tolerance for loving one thing for more than 2-4 years at best. Whatever the phase is people love it, and equally turn around and stab it in the back. So I suppose we could blame ourselves and not time, but time factors in.
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65250
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 00:49 |
|
yeah Dave does rock on that record (the whole album is terrific).. but he always has really, even on the 'Momentary' tour his playing was the best part of an otherwise tepid set of shows.
Edited by Atavachron - July 19 2007 at 00:51
|
|
mrgd
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 02 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 822
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 01:22 |
Regarding S. Trane's comment that all the CURVED AIR albums should be included, where in God's name does that come from.......or what the.......?
I agree with BaldFriede all the way. Curved Air have some excellent releases. I can't say much about the attack on Renaissance but no doubt some of their fans would strongly disagree.
I just can't see the point of singling out a band like Curved Air and ALL their albums ,even those realeased during the early to mid 70s , the heyday of prog as it is now known. At least as far as Renaissance is concerned, he's qualified his comment to after the 'live' album.
Quite frankly, I find such an attack perverse. However, we must bear in mind that this comes from an enthusiast who has distiguished himself by allocating Curved Air's AIR CUT one star, an album that is currently rating a well underdone 3.74 [most posted reviews have it at 4 or 5]. Say no more.
I think it's fair to assume he has gone out on a limb with Curved Air and for reasons known only to him, has chosen to lampoon a commonly accepted band of the 70s which many feel contributed much to the development of progressive music. This is largely by virtue of the contributions of well accepted players and luminaries of the era such as Francis Monkman, Darryl Way, Eddie Jobson, Mike Wedgwood, Tony Reeves, Kirby Gregory and others not to mention Sonja Kristina. Not a bad list.
I don't know, maybe I'm the perverse one, but I rather think not!!
Erik has mentioned the Sex Pistols. The album that bears the most blame for killing prog was 'Never Mind The Bollocks' imo and that wonderful tune 'God Save the Queen'. I was in London at the time of it's release and it spread like the plague......sadly and rapidly. It was a marketing coup, I'll give them that.
I knew the progressive days were numbered when I went to see GRYPHON at the Marquee in early 77 supporting some band with a female lead singer deriving her name from 'Susan' and an incogruous take on an American Indian tribe, with a backing group in the same vein called, you guessed it, 'The Banshees'. Are you with me? ? 
What an abortion of a bill. Needless to say, I lasted just one song of the main act and went away thinking how lucky I had been to see Gryphon in full flight 
|
|
Looking still the same after all these years...
mrgd
|
|
Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 01:41 |
|
^ This could be a fun thread idea: Most Incongruous Double Bill".
I saw Stevie Ray Vaughn opening for Men At Work back '83 or '84.
|
|
The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 02:03 |
|
Wait, how could The Wall have killed prog? It's good, it's proggy AND it's their biggest seller behind Dark Side. Whistler confoosed...
|
|
"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
|
|
kingdhansak
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 19 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 99
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 03:18 |
I was expecting to see a list of mid to late 70's punk related LP's listed here! Prog never died, it was just badly wounded in this period. Punk obviously played a big part in that. You have to remeber certain acts were still selling well from 1976 onwards: Yes, Floyd, Tull, etc.
Have however voted for ELP here I'm afraid as prog dilikers/haters that I know, curse ELP as being the most pretensious and goddam awful of the lot! I of course argue the case strongly. Love beach however is just woeful. It did kill ELP but not prog as a whole!
I have noticed recently due to a growing interest in the punk era (I know, dont hate me!) That many of the successful and large acts (Clash, Stranglers, Damned) dont seem to mind prog, their roots are in it after all. Only one band, the Sex Pistols seem to keep driveling on about how bad prog was. IMO the Sex Pistols were based so much on image and hardly anything on music.
Rant over now!
|
|
iguana
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 825
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 03:20 |
out of the list i'd say “works 1“ by E.L.P. – but it must certainly by TftO by
YES, that did the job – they completely lost it on there and nobody could
relate to it anymore. remember, prog rock wasn't such an elitist thing but
very much a music made by people for people!
albums like AttwT and 90125 that constantly appear on lists like these
have really ensured it's survival.
but i'll happily second that prog was never dead in the first place.
it just started to smell funny 
|
|
progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false?
|
|
erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 04:58 |
If the members of The Sex Pistols would have showed more interest in the lyrics and music of Animals (in my opinion a great and very compelling album with lots of emotion), they would have worn t-shirts with "I love Pink Floyd" instead of "I hate Pink Floyd" because Pink Floyd and The Sex Pistols shared a venomous and very dark view on society and agressive overtones in the music, the difference was 'a few chords' and 'some layers of keyboards'  but don't forget that both singers spitted on the crowd 
So I don't think that Animals or The Wall or The Final Cut killed prog, Roger Waters was slowly killing Pink Floyd in those days  !
Edited by erik neuteboom - July 19 2007 at 05:02
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: July 19 2007 at 05:06 |
|
^ of course, John Lydon has since "come-out" as a Van Der Graaf fan
|
|
What?
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
The Album That Killed Prog?
