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progismylife View Drop Down
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Points: 15535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 06:16
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

hahha.. still going on I see...

strong opposition or not. The Who will come to PA's..  You all know it and I do.  They as much as the Beatles were responsible for creating the atmosphere that made Progressive Rock possible.  You all can focus in the image that those who don't know music like we are supposed to focus on. As a 70's hard rock group... or you can pull your heads out of your asses and recognize that that along with the Beatles... the catagory of Proto Prog was ready made  for the Who and their real importance to rock music... not the popular notion as decadent rock stars.
 
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Points: 7456 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 06:20
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:




...There are moments on the Quadrophenia album which come close to sounding like Gabriel era Genesis. The section of 'Cut my Hair' where Pete Townsend sings sounds like something off the Lamb! Complete with strings, synths, lengthy compositions, fusing of styles and conceptualising, The Who were, for a while at least virtually prog in my opinion.

BTW, I think 'Who's Next' is one of the greatest rock albums of all time.


Dig out Trespass and Who's Next. Play Stagnation and Behind Blue Eyes back to back.The melody is almost identical.

Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Points: 46301 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 06:30
'ere we go again....
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 07:50
Originally posted by Man Erg Man Erg wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:




...There are moments on the Quadrophenia album which come close to sounding like Gabriel era Genesis. The section of 'Cut my Hair' where Pete Townsend sings sounds like something off the Lamb! Complete with strings, synths, lengthy compositions, fusing of styles and conceptualising, The Who were, for a while at least virtually prog in my opinion.

BTW, I think 'Who's Next' is one of the greatest rock albums of all time.


Dig out Trespass and Who's Next. Play Stagnation and Behind Blue Eyes back to back.The melody is almost identical.


Thats true, they are similar, but generally was some of the moods on the Quadrophenia album that got me interested in the Who, and that was because I thought they sounded 'proggy' and in the Genesis vein..

There is no reason whatsoever why they can't be on PA, under 'Prog Related' I cant accept that Iron Maiden have stronger links to prog than The Who. In fact it's obvious they haven't. imo
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Points: 3491 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 19:31
2 double album rock opera's, and 1 that never got finished but turned out as the best classic rock album ever made, what more do you need? How many rock opera's or consept albums did deep purple, the doors and queen write? And then lisen to the first who album and up to quadrophenia, now thats progresion for you. After that one they dident have much more to prove.
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Points: 8844 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 21:41
Originally posted by Zargus Zargus wrote:

2 double album rock opera's, and 1 that never got finished but turned out as the best classic rock album ever made, what more do you need? How many rock opera's or consept albums did deep purple, the doors and queen write? And then lisen to the first who album and up to quadrophenia, now thats progresion for you. After that one they dident have much more to prove.


Ugggggg.  Concept albums don't make you prog.  The Beach Boys supposedly made the first concept album, and there's no way in hell that they could be considered in any way to be prog. 

For that matter, progression doesn't make you prog either.  Listen to early R'n'B influenced Rolling Stones and then later disco-influenced Rolling Stones, and there's a big "progression," but the Stones aren't remotely prog either. 

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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2007 at 21:41
Originally posted by Zargus Zargus wrote:

2 double album rock opera's, and 1 that never got finished but turned out as the best classic rock album ever made, what more do you need?
 
Would ONE PROG ALBUM be too much?
 
Remember, this is PROG ARCHIVES, not Rock Opera Archives or Classic Rock Archives.
 
Originally posted by Zargus Zargus wrote:

How many rock opera's or consept albums did deep purple, the doors and queen write? And then lisen to the first who album and up to quadrophenia, now thats progresion for you. After that one they dident have much more to prove.
 
Zargus, we're tallking about PROGRESSIVE ROCK, not about how much a band progressed during their career.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 20 2007 at 21:43
            
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 01:33
We aren't talking about progressive rock really, are we?   We are talking about being related to or being an influence upon progressive rock.   I've been listening to Rainbow's Rising tonight and I can't hear anything that I would call progressive on it at all.  It's just good, intelligent, well crafted metal. (One could argue that metal being intelligent is progressive, I suppose.)  I just don't get why there is such die-hard opposition to including The Who when so many other bands are included that have much weaker cases for being here.
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Points: 1924 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 09:40
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

We aren't talking about progressive rock really, are we?   We are talking about being related to or being an influence upon progressive rock....

I just don't get why there is such die-hard opposition to including The Who when so many other bands are included that have much weaker cases for being here.


An analogy that springs to mind is if you were creating the 'heavy metal archives'.  In a 'metal related' category you would have to include The Yardbirds, even though they were not heavy metal themselves, their influence in the evolution of the genre is incalculable, much the same as The Beatles' influence on prog.

The Who would appear to straddle both genres and a case could be made for including them in either prog or metal archives, as being a major innovative influence
Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 09:58
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

  I just don't get why there is such die-hard opposition to including The Who when so many other bands are included that have much weaker cases for being here.


easy... like in numerous cases here at PA's....  people focus in on parts of a groups history and forget or underplay other parts. Instead of trying to educate... they fall in with the unwashed musical masses hahhaha instead of seeing the bigger picture about it's relation to prog. You can't really get into comparison games... that was blown open by several dubious PR additions... going by that... any group influenced by prog in the 70's and having a couple of prog or prog-like tracks can be added here IF they were to do the 'if x then y' routine. By the way...that would include a HELL of a lot of groups that would cause some people's head to explode here hahhaha.

For the record... I asked the admins some time ago to consider The Who. NOT as PR but as PP.  That is why I am convinced they will indeed be inducted when the time is right...  it is simply a no-brainer.  There were several groups that were no brainers for that category... the Beatles are in.... the Who should be... along with several others that I simply don't see happening for assorted reasons.
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Points: 20436 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 10:34

10CC

801

AMBROSIA

ANDERSON, JON

ASIA

ATLANTIS

BARRETT, SYD

BECK, JEFF

BLACKFIELD

BLUE ÖYSTER CULT

BOFFO, JEAN-PASCAL

BRAM STOKER

BUSH, KATE

CITY BOY

DAVISON'S EVERY WHICH WAY, BRIAN

DEUS

ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA

FAIRPORT CONVENTION

FM

GABRIEL, PETER

GALÁS, DIAMANDA

GILMOUR, DAVID

HODGSON, ROGER

IRON MAIDEN

JARRE, JEAN-MICHEL

JON & VANGELIS

KLAATU

LED ZEPPELIN

LEE, GEDDY

LORD, JON

MAGNA CARTA

MANZANERA, PHIL

MAX WEBSTER

MUSE

PARSONS PROJECT, ALAN

PRIMUS

QUEEN

RAIN FOR A DAY

RAINBOW

ROXY MUSIC

RUTHERFORD, MIKE

SAGA

STYX

SYMPHONIC SLAM

TALK TALK

TRIUMPH

WISHBONE ASH

ZON

 

 

 

 

Who would dare to say that The Who's discography should not be here when you see what else is in this Record shop racks????
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Peter View Drop Down
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 10:54
Yet again: "prog" rock is a 99.9%  SUBJECTIVE notion.
 
The Who were good, original, and creative -- add 'em, I guess.Ermm
 
 
 
Add all the "good" classic rock bands. Make 'em fit -- make up some more categories with that pesky, elusive "prog"  word tacked onto them, if necessary.
 
All The Music We See Fit To List Archives


Edited by Peter - June 21 2007 at 13:32
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 11:01
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Yet again: "prog" rock is a 99.9%  SUBJECTIVE notion.
 
The Who were good, original, and creative -- add 'em, I guess.Ermm
 
 
 
Add all the "good" rock bands. Make 'em fit -- make up some more categories with that pesky, elusive "prog"  word tacked onto them, if necessary.
 
All The Music We See Fit To List Archives


oh jeepers Peter.... I hate those categories as much as anyone here... but since the damn owners want them shouldn't we quit bitching about them, accept them,  and make them work. There were plenty of good,good, creative bands out there...and that ones that don't have any relation to prog...simply don't get added. Those that do.. for the most part hahha...do.  You for one are the age and knowledge to add your thoughts on whether or not the Who are worthy of being added NOT as a Prog Related group... but as a Proto Prog group.  Prog Related, I hate with a particular venom... but Proto Prog does serve a purpose here.
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 11:06
i know Micky, I know.
 
I stiil think prog is an outdated, near-meaningless, increasingly useless way to categorise music, and I see this site as less and less driven by a love of good music, as by the lure of the marketplace.
 
I like the overwhelmingly friendly, smart folks here, though.Smile
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 11:11
I still think a new name, to reflect the site's increasingly inclusive reality,  such as "Progcetera," might be warrented. Truth in advertising.
 
Such a move might forestall much of the perpetual bickering re inclusions, too.Ermm


Edited by Peter - June 21 2007 at 11:17
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 11:13
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

i know Micky, I know.
 
I stiil think prog is an outdated, near-meaningless, increasingly useless way to categorise music, and I see this site as less and less driven by a love of good music, as by the lure of the marketplace.
 
I like the overwhelmingly friendly, smart folks here, though.Smile


hahahha  I know Peter, I know..LOLWink
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 11:17
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

I still think a new name, to reflect the site's increasingly inclusive reality,  such as "Progcetera," might be warrented, too. Truth in advertising.
 
Such a move might forestall much of the perpetual bickering re inclusions, too.Ermm


shhhh!!!!!!!!!  don't give M@X any ideas....

though I do have my bio for Duran Duran's inclusion  ready though LOL.......
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Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 11:21
SmileAnyway, Mick, let's face it: progholes like us will ALWAYS argue about music, because each one of us KNOWS the TRUTH about superior music. (Not that we agree on just what that 'truth" is, though.)
 
'Tis our very nature as prog fans, methinks....Embarrassed


Edited by Peter - June 21 2007 at 11:21
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 12:40
Originally posted by Zargus Zargus wrote:

2 double album rock opera's, and 1 that never got finished but turned out as the best classic rock album ever made, what more do you need? How many rock opera's or consept albums did deep purple, the doors and queen write? And then lisen to the first who album and up to quadrophenia, now thats progresion for you. After that one they didnt have much more to prove.
 
It did get finished ....eventually, however, it was less 'rock opera' as 'theatre with music' There was a 'rough' draft performance at London's Old Vic Theatre in 70's, a 'finished project' played on BBC Radio 3 in 1999. The recording of the latter is available with all the demos and the subsequent later 90's live performances of some significant rearrangements of very familar tunes, will be found on the 6 CD set The Lifehouse Project:
 
Also just discovered (and therefore purchased) the DVD Music From Lifehouse  at Amazon.UK for a reasonable (i.e. cheap) price.
 


Edited by Dick Heath - June 21 2007 at 12:43
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2007 at 13:46
I will use revolutionary red. Wink
 
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

 
10CC: Don't know why they are here

801: Don't know them

AMBROSIA: Don't know why they are here

ANDERSON, JON: Maybe because his relation with Yes, otherwise ???

ASIA: Come on!!! They have some Prog stuff even if we don't like them, bland, dull maybe, but Prog.

ATLANTIS: Don't know them enough.

BARRETT, SYD: Well, he had some psyche stuff and his relation with Pink Floyd justifies PR.

BECK, JEFF: I opposed to his inclusion

BLACKFIELD: Have some Proggy stuff

BLUE ÖYSTER CULT: Don't know why they are here, I opposed their inclusion.

BOFFO, JEAN-PASCAL: The team moved him from Symphonic to PR, because we can't delete a musician already added

BRAM STOKER: Don't understand enugh their music to give an opinion

BUSH, KATE: Maybe because she was related to Peter Gabriel in one song, otherwise I can't explain

CITY BOY: Don't know

DAVISON'S EVERY WHICH WAY, BRIAN: Don't know

DEUS: Don't know

ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA: They were added by mistake by a Special Collaborator who made the inclusion despite the polls and the decision of the Collabs and Adms.

FAIRPORT CONVENTION: Some kind of Prog Folk

FM: Don't know

GABRIEL, PETER: Come on!! PG I and PG II are Prog, the rest of his stuff is a different form of Prog Folk related with World Music, should be in Art Rock, but I never insisted because it's not a priority.

GALÁS, DIAMANDA: Come on again!!!!

GILMOUR, DAVID: Come on again III!!!

HODGSON, ROGER: I don't believe Supertramp should be here, much less Hodgson

IRON MAIDEN: For God's sake, they were doing Proto Prog Metal before almost anybody, plus they have some 100% Prog stuff in Seventh Son of a Seventh Son and the track Ryme of an Ancient Mariner.

JARRE, JEAN-MICHEL: If you remember I opposed this addition, he was added to Electronic and moved by Phillippe (If I'm not wrong) to PR, I supported his choce. 

JON & VANGELIS: Short Stories is at least Prog Related

KLAATU: Never understood the obsession with this band.

LED ZEPPELIN: Don't know why they are here

LEE, GEDDY: Haven't heard his solo stuff

LORD, JON: You can remember this, he was tried to be included as Symphonic (You and I objected this), and if we didn't objected despite the preassure they would be there. I believe he's  Neo Clasical, maybe Prog Related at the most.

MAGNA CARTA: Don't know why they are here

MANZANERA, PHIL: Don't know why he is here

MAX WEBSTER: Not familiar

MUSE: Prog Related is OK

PARSONS PROJECT, ALAN: Please Sean, Tales of Mystery and Imagination is 100% Prog, I Robot is Electronic Prog and Pyramyds is Prog Related.

PRIMUS: Never cared enough to get an album

QUEEN: Don't know why they are here, if you remember I opposed their inclusion

RAIN FOR A DAY: Don't know why they are here

RAINBOW: Don't know why they are here

ROXY MUSIC: Don't know why they are here

RUTHERFORD, MIKE: Smallcreeps Day

SAGA: Prog Related at least

STYX: Their three first albums are Prog, that's a fact

SYMPHONIC SLAM: Not familiar

TALK TALK: Don't know why they are here

TRIUMPH: Don't know why they are here

WISHBONE ASH: Have my doubts but not enough to object

ZON: Not famliar

 

 Who would dare to say that The Who's discography should not be here when you see what else is in this Record shop racks????

 
Sean, as you see we all manifested our objections in the moment over some of this bands, but they are here and nothing can be done, but again IMHO a mistake doesn't justify to make another one.
 
The Who is a great band, they influenced everybody in certain degree, but if they are Proto something, they are Proto Punk.
 
Not enough to include them here IMHO.
 
Why don't we care to add 100% Prog Acts instead of insisting and insisting in dubious Prog Related acts to have an excuse to add more dubious Prog acts?
 
The next time would be: Hey if The Who are here, why not Boston? And believe me Boston is at least a conservative evolution of Prog directly influenced by it, despite this they should not be added because they split completely from the genre.
 
We are getting deeper in the hole with each addition, lets worry about the real Prog acts, there are plenty of bands for all genres in the master list, clean the master list first, check the 100% Prog additions and then worry about Prog Related.
 
Some people have made a priority of Prog Related and that's not what this site was created for, Prog Related is a escape for bands we know should be added but don't fit in any 100% Prog sub-genre and as an exception, not as our priority mission.
 
Iván
            
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