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ClassicRocker 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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 Posted: June 04 2007 at 17:51 |
^^^ Valid points, but in the end this is all subjective (like our musical tastes.. no-one's right, yet everyone is). Honestly, I consider myself more liberal than conservative (but that doesn't mean I believe what they all do; I have my own beliefs and more of them just happen to fall into that category).
In that vein of thought I HATE the "PC police". I'm sick and tired of everyone bending over backwards so that they don't "offend" anyone. Sure, we have the basics I believe are neccessary to follow: like don't be racist or don't make insults out of sexual orientation, but the problem lies beyond that. People are getting afraid to speak their minds as to not offend, yet virtually anything one says, does, or makes has the potential of "offending" someone in this world.
In all seriousness, political satires like Borat help to fight this by saying what they want and being "offensive" in order to get their points across and expose real problems like ignorance in America (and parts of the rest of the world as well).
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 15:47 |
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I guess it depends on which freedoms you value the most. For example, I think that marikuana should be legal, but I don't like marijuana or people that use it, so if conservatives want to ban it, it doesn't upset me as much as income redistribution as supported by the democrats.
I don't support government subsidies of anything. Conservatives want to subsidize big business, liberals want to subsidize everything else.
And one of the most frightening things to me about the democratic party is their value of political correctness over freedom. When an employer is forced, forced mind you, to keep giving money to someone to do a job that they don't want them to do, simply because of their race, religion, or sexual orientation, I think we have a big problem. (In case it's not clear I'm referring to anti-discrimination laws such as affirmative action.)
On the whole I can think of many more examples of liberal restrictions on freedom than of conservative ones. But as I said, that's just my opinion.
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 13:57 |
 thellama73 wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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Allow me to clarify. I believe in capitalism, the free market, economic liberty. I believe in small government, bordering on no government. I believe in lowering taxes. All of these are traditionally conservative positions, at least in the USA.
I also believe in social liberty, such as the right to smoke (democrats are the ones who take this away) the right to bear arms (conservative). I also believe in gay rights and legalizing drugs, which one place where I differ from conservatives, but those are not my highest priority issues.
In my opinions, liberals want to restrict our freedoms in order to increase social equality. Conservatives also want to limit our freedoms, but it's not so blatant or severe. At leaast that's my view.
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So how exactly do conservatives want to restrict our freedoms on a "lower level" than liberals? examples?
(not arguing.. just discussing)
Edited by ClassicRocker - June 04 2007 at 13:57
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 12:43 |
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you!
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Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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Allow me to clarify. I believe in capitalism, the free market, economic liberty. I believe in small government, bordering on no government. I believe in lowering taxes. All of these are traditionally conservative positions, at least in the USA. I also believe in social liberty, such as the right to smoke (democrats are the ones who take this away) the right to bear arms (conservative). I also believe in gay rights and legalizing drugs, which one place where I differ from conservatives, but those are not my highest priority issues. In my opinions, liberals want to restrict our freedoms in order to increase social equality. Conservatives also want to limit our freedoms, but it's not so blatant or severe. At leaast that's my view.
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 23:32 |
JJLehto wrote:
These terms kinda annoy me. You can claim to be ANYTHING and have a serious philosiphy backing you up. Once as a joke I said I was a libertarian communist, and someone on this forum really was!
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Very true, there are some extremely ridiculous combos of political "philosophies". Maybe too many non-comformists? Don't want to categorize themselves?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 18:22 |
These terms kinda annoy me. You can claim to be ANYTHING and have a serious philosiphy backing you up. Once as a joke I said I was a libertarian communist, and someone on this forum really was!
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20251
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 06:24 |
ClassicRocker wrote:
debrewguy wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Novalis wrote:
tuxon wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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it's actually both the same isn't it? |
Well if you think about it, far left Marxism is about as far from libertarianism as you can get. |
Agreed Novalis! There is no way there is a redundance between these extremes.
No way far left politics tend to force out individualism in order to reinforce the community's equality.
Libartarians are openly individualist and close to anarchism by their hate of structures.
At least that's my comprehension.
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I would say that right wing politics tend to force out individualism in order to enforce the community's homogeneity.
Left & right wing (sounds like a hockey forward line missing the centre) both share this thinking, "Don't rock the boat, if you know what's good for you".
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I completely agree with your first statement (I may be generalizing about social conservatives - in America - but I find it ironic that you included a word with "homo-" in it when talking about right-wing politics  ). In regards to your second statement I'm not so sure. Some things that stand out in my mind are "Liberal" organizations like the A.C.L.U. (=  ), which seem to "rock the boat" quite a bit (with so many people being "offended" and whatnot). I'm sure there are other examples (like of conservative groups that "rock the boat")... just can't think of any at the moment. |
Actually I wouldn't go too far as saying that the entire right wing politics is repressing individualism. This might be so a bit in the conservateur scope of right wing politics and a lot in the extreme right realm, but certainly not in the liberal rightwing, where you are encouraged to be different and succeed as much as possible.
I meant that individualism being repressed by the left wing is more like the economic freedom. They will tend to scrape up your exceeding cash flow to give it to the needy (and the leaches profitting from the system).
Liberal or Entrepreneurial right wing politics is all for people wanting to show that they are better than their neighbours by building a bigger pool and owning a Rolls instead of a Jag.
Conservateur will disapprove of one of their comlmunity acting like that , but as long as the money is given to the church to shut the pastor/minister up, he will dismiss this weakness as humanly and avoid drying up the source of providence >>> now there is a shot below the belt !!!!
Edited by Sean Trane - June 03 2007 at 06:26
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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ClassicRocker
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 894
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 01:24 |
debrewguy wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Novalis wrote:
tuxon wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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it's actually both the same isn't it? |
Well if you think about it, far left Marxism is about as far from libertarianism as you can get. |
Agreed Novalis! There is no way there is a redundance between these extremes.
No way far left politics tend to force out individualism in order to reinforce the community's equality.
Libartarians are openly individualist and close to anarchism by their hate of structures.
At least that's my comprehension.
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I would say that right wing politics tend to force out individualism in order to enforce the community's homogeneity.
Left & right wing (sounds like a hockey forward line missing the centre) both share this thinking, "Don't rock the boat, if you know what's good for you".
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I completely agree with your first statement (I may be generalizing about social conservatives - in America - but I find it ironic that you included a word with "homo-" in it when talking about right-wing politics ). In regards to your second statement I'm not so sure. Some things that stand out in my mind are "Liberal" organizations like the A.C.L.U. (= ), which seem to "rock the boat" quite a bit (with so many people being "offended" and whatnot). I'm sure there are other examples (like of conservative groups that "rock the boat")... just can't think of any at the moment.
And on a different note:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you!
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No hating! Personally I really liked Ayn Rand's views (but I am only familiar with some of her opinions on existence and knowledge... not so much politically).
Edited by ClassicRocker - June 03 2007 at 01:29
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tardis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: Victoria, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 14378
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:57 |
debrewguy wrote:
tardis wrote:
Politics stinks worse than my own sh*t. And that's saying something.
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Nah, you just gotta understand how the game is played. Then you need to analyze the audience (i.e. voters) reaction & thought process. Politicians hate to have to make hard & nasty choices & the citizens oblige them by rewarding with power those who come up with the easy answer, whether it's realistic or not. " I will lower your taxes & give you more of XXXX" 
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I still think politics is a farce and a waste of time. Yeah, sure, maybe you can get some change, but only based on the issues presented. If there are REAL issues at hand, you have to petition your ass off to get them to take notice, and ONLY if others are willing to support your idea(s). Of course, you can go it alone, but who wants to be a crusader every time something needs doing. Show me a politician who can create effective and truly positive change, and I'll show some interest!
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:37 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Novalis wrote:
tuxon wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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it's actually both the same isn't it? |
Well if you think about it, far left Marxism is about as far from libertarianism as you can get. |
Agreed Novalis! There is no way there is a redundance between these extremes.
No way far left politics tend to force out individualism in order to reinforce the community's equality.
Libartarians are openly individualist and close to anarchism by their hate of structures.
At least that's my comprehension.
|
I would say that right wing politics tend to force out individualism in order to enforce the community's homogeneity. Left & right wing (sounds like a hockey forward line missing the centre) both share this thinking, "Don't rock the boat, if you know what's good for you".
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20251
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 06:44 |
Novalis wrote:
tuxon wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
|
it's actually both the same isn't it? |
Well if you think about it, far left Marxism is about as far from libertarianism as you can get. |
Agreed Novalis! There is no way there is a redundance between these extremes.
No way far left politics tend to force out individualism in order to reinforce the community's equality.
Libartarians are openly individualist and close to anarchism by their hate of structures.
At least that's my comprehension.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 23:46 |
I am a progressive conservative libertarian populist.
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Novalis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 338
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 23:33 |
tuxon wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
|
it's actually both the same isn't it? |
Well if you think about it, far left Marxism is about as far from libertarianism as you can get.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 23:30 |
rileydog22 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you! |
Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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it's actually both the same isn't it?
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 22:49 |
thellama73 wrote:
I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you!
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Conservative libertarian? Those seem like incompatable terms. Could you explain your position?
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Novalis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 338
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 22:29 |
^^^I'm pretty conservative in my beliefs and I have libertarian tendencies also.
Edit: What is your opinion of Ron Paul?
Edited by Novalis - June 01 2007 at 22:35
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 22:23 |
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I'm a conservative libertarian to whom the writings of Ayn Rand make a lot of sense. Please don't hate me because I'm different than you!
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 19:18 |
tardis wrote:
Politics stinks worse than my own sh*t. And that's saying something.
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Nah, you just gotta understand how the game is played. Then you need to analyze the audience (i.e. voters) reaction & thought process. Politicians hate to have to make hard & nasty choices & the citizens oblige them by rewarding with power those who come up with the easy answer, whether it's realistic or not. " I will lower your taxes & give you more of XXXX"
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Badabec
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1313
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Posted: June 01 2007 at 11:06 |
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I use to have very liberal views. So I decided to chose "liberal".
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Mesmo a tristeza da gente era mais bela
E além disso se via da janela
Um cantinho de céu e o Redentor
- Antônio Carlos Jobim, Toquinho & Vinícius de Moraes - Carta ao Tom 74
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20251
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Posted: May 30 2007 at 05:20 |
darqdean wrote:
Two thirds of the worlds popluation drive on the wrong side of the road (as far as I am concerned  )- so on that score at least, the US is with the majority. |
Gotta love them Britts!!!
Only two ways to drive
On the right side of the road or on the wrong side of the road.
Guess who's wrong???
Edited by Sean Trane - May 30 2007 at 05:20
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Liberal Or Conservative?
