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OpethGuitarist 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 1655
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 Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:46 |
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i lol @ this thread
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
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Points: 5308
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:34 |
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sig
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:27 |
 laplace wrote:
Dream Theater doesn't exactly need defending you know, they're unimaginably successful. It's like when people jump to Phil Collins' defense when one bad word is said against him. They need defending...Imagine DT without some defense...It would be taken out of PA.... ( paranoia, nothing else... as much as many poeple would love to see it happen, DT is THE prog-metal band)
OH NO MINORITY OPINIONS! Hey! Long live minority opinions! I'm part of the mninority when it comes to Dowsing Anemone, for example...
dream theater hits me as stale music. I'm not going to list the "oh so technical but where's the emotion" generic arguments because they're stupid and I hate it when they're employed to defend crap like Pink Floyd. simply put, DT make music that fails to be progressive enough or metallic enough to engage my tastes from either direction.
OK
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
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Points: 7606
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:24 |
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Dream Theater doesn't exactly need defending you know, they're unimaginably successful. It's like when people jump to Phil Collins' defense when one bad word is said against him.
OH NO MINORITY OPINIONS!
dream theater hits me as stale music. I'm not going to list the "oh so technical but where's the emotion" generic arguments because they're stupid and I hate it when they're employed to defend crap like Pink Floyd. simply put, DT make music that fails to be progressive enough or metallic enough to engage my tastes from either direction.
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:18 |
FruMp wrote:
I HATE emotion deprived cheese bands like DT who have modern metal production, that is my most hated type of prog alongside prog/power.
I'm sure there are a lot of guys here like me who like metal and prog but hate cheese, if you're one of those guys I recommend you get some:
Let's see.....Atheist - kickass technical prog metal most importantly with sweet riffs, amazing rythmn section, funky ass drum beats and bass lines. Unquestionable presence is more technical and more metallic, elements is a bit slower and more prog - both highly, highly recommended. But you said you hate emotion-deprived bands... yet you don't count emotion as one of your reccomended band's attributes... Death - a similar band, highly repsected early death metal band some great stuff but they're a bit heavier, their later stuff (symbolic onwards) is more prog and technical mmmm, the same thing again. Coroner - absolutely freaking amazing 80's technical thrash power trio if you're into sweet technical riffs, breakneck speed extremely tasteful (and fast) solos then get some they aren't on the archives though, I'd recommend punishment for decadence for the metal fan and grin for the prog fan. No emotion at all... Pure technique, according to you. So I understand that what you really hate is emotion, don't you? Mekong Delta - Amazing band plays thrash infused with classical music (not cheese neo-classical sh*te either, PROPER classical stuff), I recommend visions fugitives What is that "neo-classic" sh*t? What is PROPER classical? True PROPER classical would be music straight from the wombs of Mozart or Haydn or Carl Phillip Emannuel Bach... that's the only TRUE classical music, becuase the expression "classical music", if we are to use it properly, refers only to that period of time after the baroque and before romanticism... but we all agree to call all academic music "classical", so I guess either all of these bands play PROPER classical music or they don'tSpastik Ink - Highly amusing instrumental (mostly) very technical prog metal band, interesting stuff, either of their albums are worth a listen. Mr Bungle - not terribly metal (even though they were THE band that got me into metal) but a bloody excellent and funny band. Sleep Terror - Awesome Techincal Metal duo, really good stuff has lots of jazz breaks and technical ass riffs in it. Right.. All of these great bands... but yopu hate emotion deprived metal...
I mean even some earlier thrash stuff is quite progressive if you listen hard
I agree. Metallica - master of puppets, I'm not the biggest fan of metallica but master of puppets the song is undeniably progressive in nature and it's arguably their best and most adventurous album. Agreeance it's the word. Megadeth - when you analyse the song structures they are often quite progessive in nature, Rust in piece is highly recommended, mustaine writes kickass riffs holy wars I believe is quite a progessive song with some kinda technical riffs, kickass song. Don't agree that much... Even Rust in Peace is pure giitar fireworks..good album but it's just thrash...Lawnmower deth - obscure band that I've got into recently, really funny RIO type thrash but it's more straightforward - only recommended for metal fans. God I could be here all day digging and probing and finding prog elements in all the bands I like, I'll just stop now. Basically I'm equally a fan of prog and thrash these days, I can't speak highly enough of the thrash metal genre there is so much quality music to be had and it's just got this real raw and genuine feel to it most of the time and there are some really good funny bands and real good innovators it's all mostly from the 80's though. So yeah that's the kinda guy these opinions are coming from. I understand. But you'd agree you are not a "emotional" band kind of fan, from what you say and from the list you are giving.... so, how come you know DT is a emotion-deprived band?...
Anyway, I respect your position. But, to use an expression I just love (please, I HAVE the right to use it at least once in my lifetime):.........
You just don't get it.
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:08 |
micky wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I still don't understand how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Dream Theater are "emotion deprived" ... |
logic to me... compared to emotional prog groups.. DT sound souless, mechanical and overproduced. It's all perception. Listen to Biglietto per l'Inferno.. then Dream Theater. You'll why we slap that label on them.
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Maybe he WON'T. Maybe it so happens that the kind of "emotion" DT produces is more to the taste of what he (or me for sure) likes.... it's YOUR perception... maybe I won't see why you slap that label on them... maybe I will re-afirm my original thoughts...anyway... it seems people that say that kind of stuff haven't heard songs as finally free or the solitary shell section in 6DOIT... no emotion? What is emotion then? A guy wailing and whining in front of a microphone? I don't understand but I guess MY perception of what is emotioanl is just my own and a few more "insane" ones.... hey, you DT fans! We are all emotion-less, machine-lovin' freaks!
Yes, emotion can only be black or white? Mmmm, I agree...that makes as much sense as calling DT or prog-metal in general emotion-less....Even the most EXTREME metal like Messhugah, yes, that noise-making-machine, I'm sure those guys play with emotion...you know which emotion? Anger... maybe hate... maybe just fury...whatever, that is ALSO an emotion... To be honest, ELP's music (or K Crimson's in general) seems FAR LESS emotional to me than most prog metal... that music, while good, seems to come directly from the brain, with no toll-booth clearance through the heart...yes, the heart... not only love comes from the heart...
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
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Points: 21206
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 09:48 |
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Ok, so there's only black and white when it comes to emotions ...
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:26 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
I still don't understand how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Dream Theater are "emotion deprived" ...
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logic to me... compared to emotional prog groups.. DT sound souless, mechanical and overproduced. It's all perception. Listen to Biglietto per l'Inferno.. then Dream Theater. You'll why we slap that label on them.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:23 |
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I still don't understand how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that Dream Theater are "emotion deprived" ...
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FruMp
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 322
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:43 |
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I HATE emotion deprived cheese bands like DT who have modern metal production, that is my most hated type of prog alongside prog/power.
I'm sure there are a lot of guys here like me who like metal and prog but hate cheese, if you're one of those guys I recommend you get some:
Atheist - kickass technical prog metal most importantly with sweet riffs, amazing rythmn section, funky ass drum beats and bass lines. Unquestionable presence is more technical and more metallic, elements is a bit slower and more prog - both highly, highly recommended.
Death - a similar band, highly repsected early death metal band some great stuff but they're a bit heavier, their later stuff (symbolic onwards) is more prog and technical
Coroner - absolutely freaking amazing 80's technical thrash power trio if you're into sweet technical riffs, breakneck speed extremely tasteful (and fast) solos then get some they aren't on the archives though, I'd recommend punishment for decadence for the metal fan and grin for the prog fan.
Mekong Delta - Amazing band plays thrash infused with classical music (not cheese neo-classical sh*te either, PROPER classical stuff), I recommend visions fugitives
Spastik Ink - Highly amusing instrumental (mostly) very technical prog metal band, interesting stuff, either of their albums are worth a listen.
Mr Bungle - not terribly metal (even though they were THE band that got me into metal) but a bloody excellent and funny band.
Sleep Terror - Awesome Techincal Metal duo, really good stuff has lots of jazz breaks and technical ass riffs in it.
I mean even some earlier thrash stuff is quite progressive if you listen hard
Metallica - master of puppets, I'm not the biggest fan of metallica but master of puppets the song is undeniably progressive in nature and it's arguably their best and most adventurous album.
Megadeth - when you analyse the song structures they are often quite progessive in nature, Rust in piece is highly recommended, mustaine writes kickass riffs holy wars I believe is quite a progessive song with some kinda technical riffs, kickass song.
Lawnmower deth - obscure band that I've got into recently, really funny RIO type thrash but it's more straightforward - only recommended for metal fans.
God I could be here all day digging and probing and finding prog elements in all the bands I like, I'll just stop now.
Basically I'm equally a fan of prog and thrash these days, I can't speak highly enough of the thrash metal genre there is so much quality music to be had and it's just got this real raw and genuine feel to it most of the time and there are some really good funny bands and real good innovators it's all mostly from the 80's though. So yeah that's the kinda guy these opinions are coming from.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 06:43 |
^ I should have guessed that there most be at least half a dozen gore bands with that name ... but it's not among my favorite genre, so I didn't know. 
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 06:37 |
Funny you should mention that
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=32462
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=47006
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=15480
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=47582
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 04:05 |
^ hey, "Meat Grinder" would be a great name for a metal band!
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 03:49 |
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mike come on now you and I both know prog metal is an inferior form of noise
clearly a meat grinder produces more desirable noise
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 03:17 |
sircosick wrote:
Complexity doesn't bely emotions certainly: just listen to King Crimson. But maybe because of technology and this modern era, prog metal is extremely arranged, and you can see (or hear, really) the feeling of virtuous musicians as well, but you can't compare Crimson with DC: new context, a new era. For me prog metal sounds also as industrial music :P
Prog years are over; the early bands were very nice, but now it's over, except a few exceptions.
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It's not over, it's just different. There are many "exceptions", you just have to search a little bit more to find them.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 03:14 |
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 20:00 |
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I'd say actually that the majority of prog metal is lacking what industrial music excels at: texture. Too many prog metal bands have exactly the same sound, and there are only so many different ways to shred before it gets a little dull..!
That's where Kayo Dot are a happy exception (among others, but these chaps are my favourites, particularly the first record.) There certainly aren't a hundred notes a second in their music, but it's texturally and timbrally very interesting indeed. Also a beautiful horn (I think it's a horn, but my memory may be clouded..!) on their first album.
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
Status: Offline
Points: 10063
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:59 |
Drew wrote:
dang JD- I have Riverside out of that list. That's it
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You're missing a lot. 
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sircosick
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 29 2007
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 1264
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:54 |
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Complexity doesn't bely emotions certainly: just listen to King Crimson. But maybe because of technology and this modern era, prog metal is extremely arranged, and you can see (or hear, really) the feeling of virtuous musicians as well, but you can't compare Crimson with DC: new context, a new era. For me prog metal sounds also as industrial music :P
Prog years are over; the early bands were very nice, but now it's over, except a few exceptions.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 19:39 |
dang JD- I have Riverside out of that list. That's it
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