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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2004 at 16:51

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

I find that you guys just want to read good things about the bands you really like. There are bands that I love but when they put out what I call a dud it deserves a bad review.for example I love the Hungarian band Omega but in the 1980`s they went, well, pop, I gave Omega 11 a bomb .See some of my other reviews. Also check out my wife`s review on Gentle Giant Octopus. If someone doesn`t like Dark Side ( I myself love it, great album to have sex to ) then he /she is entitled to voice their particular opinion and it is up to the reader of the review to decide for themselves by comparing other reviwes to that particular review. Like Clint Eastwood said in a Dirty Harry film opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. This to me is even a dumber thread than the Mariah thread.

Like Marshall McLuhan said in Annie Hall, "You know nothing of my work!". I'm going to need you to re-read my original post stating the goal of this thread (or any of the majority of posts here which have no judgement on the bands discussed in the quoted reviews) before you call it dumb. I have no control over whether some members want to use it to defend or attack specific points of view; I'm just trying to find examples which are either so off the point that they can't even be called reviews or examples of communications gone awry. I find that infinitely more fascinating, for instance, than discussing which album was Genesis' last real prog album (for the nth time), or what the exact definition of 'prog' is.

I was more concerned that people would think I was having a laugh at someone else's expense. However, even if we assume for a moment that your concept of this thread is correct, why shouldn't we have a thread to respond to opinions expressed in reviews? This is a music review site, and this is the music review site discussion board, so what better place to discuss the reviews? In fact, to be blunt about it, this review site discussion board spends very little time actually talking about the reviews which (I'll say it again) are the main purpose of the site. Let me rephrase this concept, as I don't want it to be misunderstood (like the concept of this thread was misunderstood): ProgArchives.com is a progressive rock review website, and the discussion forum spends almost no time discussing the reviews. This is one of the few threads that does. Got it? Do you still find fault?

If you're having a bad day, don't take it out on my thread

 

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Dan Bobrowski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2004 at 19:05

This is a review forum?

 I thought this was a social club for the socially inept.

OR is that musically sophisticated?

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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2004 at 20:18
A bit of both, at least in my case
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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2004 at 11:24
So now we`re reviewing reviews. I have mentioned on previous threads that I enjoy (and respect) other people`s opinions and interpretations of albums. Music, or any other art form is a very personal thing. It is very easy to be an uninformed critic. Too bloody easy. Take ,for example, my wife`s review on Gentle Giant`s Octopus. I had to force her to write it. She had to familiarize herself with the work before writing an honest critique. She has a master`s degree in music and is currently working on her doctorate. I think many reviews that apear on the site lack thought and depth. If you ask me the best reviews come from Peter Rideout. They are by far the Rolls Royces of reviews because they involve  a certain amount of thought. As with myself he listens to the music as he writes. My favourite r4eviews from him are the Marillion Misplaced Childhood and King Crimson Starless and Bible Black reviews. You will notice that my serious reviews include background information and anecdotes. I am not trying to tell anyone how to write reviews but what what I look for is the reviewer`s intimacy with the work. It`s not quantity it`s quality. I have over 2,500 albums and could sit and review and review and review, I only review when I have the passion not just for the sake of it. On a closing note it is beyond me how anyone can take the porcupine Tree review or Rush Live in Rio review seriously or some of the Genesis reviews I have written.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2004 at 15:03

Some interesting points there Vibe.

True intamacy with a work will almost always only be gained if you enjoy the music, and therefore want to hear it on a regular basis. Would this preclude you from reviewing "seriously", an album you were not so keen on?

I think most of the reviews here will have been given a fair bit of thought. We all listen on different levels though, and the reviews we submit will be written accordingly. Personally, I don't enjoy reviews so much if they are too "technical". I'm not that interested whether a tune has 4 bars or 5, whether its an A-B-A-C-A-B or a A-C-A-C-B. A technical review may reveal that the music has been well put together from an academic point of view, but it doesn't tell me if I'll actually like it. Its what the reviewer feels about the music, and why they feel it, which I'm interested in. As you imply, some people are better at expressing that than others.

Track by track reviews can be interesting, but I often find I glance over them after the first couple of tracks. I prefer ones which give me a flavour of the album as a whole, perhaps mentioning specific high and low points.

I like to read critical reviews too. A well written adverse review is probably harder to compose than for an album you enjoy. It's easy to say "this is rubbish" it's much more difficult to explain constuctively why you think it's rubbish.

I think your Porcupine Tree etc. reviews may have been taken seriously because they did not show the reviewer's name as the one we all know as Vibrationbaby!Wink

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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2004 at 18:36

I'm all for reviewing reviews, but since we have so many different ways of approaching music I don't think it could ever be anything more than sharing your personal 'this is how I look at it' method. I've experimented with strict song component analysis, which is good for determining the skills of the band- it's like standardized testing for music. I've tried putting bands and albums in perspective with current or historical elements, which is nice to pin down influences and figure out what (if anything) they were reacting to. I've also tried going by emotion alone- my Moody Blues reviews have more to do with a nostalgic response to the music than their overall worth or their place in prog. I've even tried getting high and seeing where the music takes me (not a bad approach for the wilder ends of the spectrum, although I like to do some editing before I submit anything from these sessions). I've even toyed with the idea of giving red herring reviews...saying the exact opposite of how I feel, with subtle humor, to see if anyone gets it.

And after all of it, my reviews ultimately have no more worth than any of the ones featured on this thread. In fact, my review output has dwindled considerably because I am losing the passion (to borrow VB's phrase) to talk about music. Most of the people who are willing (or driven) to discuss music simply do not have much to say. Even the best of them typically appear only to render their judgement and then vanish with little thought for feedback...whether I'm among the better ones or not, I can see the motivation: you get frustrated when people miss the point, go off on tangents, or bow to majority opinion for the sake of genial compromise. When I started with the site I was excited about having a conversation about music and trading insights with a group of informed people; now I find that the smart ones rarely say anything and we're just going over the same tired topics and statements. With respect, the "opinions are like a-holes" theory is one of those...I wonder how many interesting conversations that sort of statement has deflated.

I thought this thread would be a nice left-turn, to have some fun discussing reviews that don't lend themselves to the usual responses. I guess in hindsight I should be surprised it took three pages to get this point.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2004 at 19:39
Wait for my Mariah reviews. I honestly did not deliberately to insult anyone but this is obviously a sensitive topic. I think we should just drop it and get on to more important things such as MARIAH !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2004 at 19:42
[QUOTE=danbo]

This is a review forum?

 I thought this was a social club for the socially inept.

OR is that musically sophisticated?

[/QUOTEI`m socially inept very socially inept, just ask my dogs. Oh yeah, and my wife too.
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Dan Bobrowski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2004 at 20:26
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

This is a review forum?

 I thought this was a social club for the socially inept.

OR is that musically sophisticated?

I`m socially inept very socially inept, just ask my dogs. Oh yeah, and my wife too.

Us too! Where's yer pic, BTW?

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Vibrationbaby View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2004 at 12:26
Danbo my horrific pic is coming and I will guarantee that I am a hell of a lot uglier than you. Nice dogs!

Edited by Vibrationbaby
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2004 at 19:20

Anyobody ever tell you that you look like...oh yeah, we've done that

I can't find a pic with both me and my wife AND the bulldogs (someone has to press the button) so you'll have to settle for two bulldogs, a cat, and my broken-nosed doughboy presence on the couch.

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2004 at 03:17

Photos with pets, eh? Here's me with my babies. They don't need much walking but they do need looking after! (ps Danbo, don't bust me man...)(pps, Holland is the true "land of the free".)



Edited by emdiar
Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2004 at 09:04
My goldfish won't stay still long enough for a photo.Cry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2004 at 03:06

I think someone has been taking note!

It's definitely worth discussing the reviews - if discussions like this mean that we get more reviews of this quality, then it's worth it, IMO. After all, we don't want to end up like Ama..., I mean, other review sites, do we?;

JETHRO TULL - A Passion Play
Review by The Mentalist @ 9:13:21 PM EST, 8/22/2004

5 stars  —   A Passion to Tull's play as creed undoubtedly is best not of bad by any means. Some of the complex as prog is only not as that by creed. Tull lovers split separate over meaning this before that. Spectacles aside hair is better than most songs sung lost or found by kangaroo in prog pouch. -- Review by Bablefish Just kidding, folks. Couldn't resist it. Here's my real review although there's no guarantee it'll make any more sense that my mock Bablefish review. . .creed! A Passion play is undoubtedly Tull's finest hour. Not that they haven't produce a lot of fantastic album, it's just that this one is by far the most intense and ingenious thing Ian Anderson and Co have ever come up with....
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Peter View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2004 at 16:02

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

If you ask me the best reviews come from Peter Rideout. They are by far the Rolls Royces of reviews because they involve  a certain amount of thought. 

SmileThank you for the very kind compliments, Vibe!Embarrassed

I try....

More environmentally unfriendly, gas-guzzling, ostentacious, archaic, overpriced, glitzy, overlong, poor handling, but powerful and chauffeur-driven reviews upcoming! LOL

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2004 at 16:40
Peter my mentor, welcome back
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James Lee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2004 at 02:01

This is just begging for inclusion:

PALLAS - The Cross And The Crucible
Review by James D Hill @ 1:05:57 AM EST, 8/27/2004

4 stars  —   Neo prog filled that void between Pink Floyd The Wall and Anglagard Hybris and Im greatfull because that era sucked but neo prog by definition is a watered down version of prog and is lacking in many ways.Why do so many neo prog band think they are Genesis?It seems to be a pattern.By the way they forgot the details that made Genesis great.No matter its still good.
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2004 at 10:54

Neo Prog sucks - Pallas is Neo Prog - This album's great, buy it.

Makes perfect sense.....

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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2004 at 12:46
Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Neo Prog sucks - Pallas is Neo Prog - This album's great, buy it.

Makes perfect sense.....



Not as neo prog as Marillion, It Bites, Satellite, Hamadryad, Glass Hammer, IQ etc. - more having the misfortune to appear at the height of the first wave of neo-prog bands  and the pundits then were (as ever as clueless)as to which category to put them, so they went in one created already.....................................
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2004 at 13:17
I was joking, Dick. I would never trash an entire genre or even everything by a single band. Even Marillion had a good song or two. <don't beat me Cert!
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