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Topic ClosedIs Radiohead prog?
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chamberry View Drop Down
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Points: 9008 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2007 at 12:40
They are for me.

They're prog in a doing-something-new kind of way  with some obvious hints on prog as genre as well.

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Points: 7341 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2007 at 12:08

I think they are nowadays. I read an article in Mojo about the new songs they've been writing and they sound very progressive as far as their descriptions.

OK Computer is about as prog as modern Porcupine Tree to, except Radiohead have shorter songs and are far more creative.
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Points: 33 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2007 at 10:05
I was thinking about this myself when I found out that Radiohead was deemed prog by this site. Ture, they have some prog qualitys to them, but so does alot of other bands whom arnt on this sight (the Canadian band Arcade Fire for exsample, last time I cheacked was not on the sight, yet have more prog qualitys aboot them).
 
So I think the verdict will be unconfurmed for a while, if ever. Are they or arnt they? To me, they are not, but that does not make them a bad band. In fact, they are one of my favourit bands, but I persanaly dont think they are Prog.
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:55
Radiohead is in a new genre: "mumble rock." Thumbs%20Up
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Points: 21711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:55
^ that would be "independent". I know, these labels suck ... Wink
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:53
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Sounds like it could encompass prog too.
 
You forgot the main element PUNK INSPIRED in different degrees.
 
Prog is previous to Punk, so hardly can be Punk inspired.
 
Iván
 
Im not really talking about any literal meaning of "alternative" in a genre sense. Im talking in an alternative to mainstream chart music sense.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:50
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Sounds like it could encompass prog too.
 
You forgot the main element PUNK INSPIRED in different degrees.
 
Prog is previous to Punk, so hardly can be Punk inspired.
 
Iván
            
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:33
Sounds like it could encompass prog too.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:30
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Alternative to what? The mainstream? In which case Prog fills thet nicely and is also "alternative".
 
Alternative Rock or Alternative Music:
 
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Alternative rock (also called alternative music[1] or simply alternative) is a genre of rock music that emerged in the 1980s and became widely popular in the 1990s. The name "alternative" was coined in the 1980s to describe punk rock-inspired bands on independent record labels that didn't fit into the mainstream genres of the time.[2] As a specific genre of music, alternative rock consists of various subgenres that have emerged from the indie music scene since the 1980s, such as grunge, indie rock, Britpop, gothic rock, and indie pop. These genres are unified by their collective debt to the style and/or ethos of punk, which laid the groundwork for alternative music in the 1970s.[3]

Though the genre is considered to be rock, some of its subgenres are influenced by folk music, reggae, electronic music and jazz among other genres. At times alternative rock has been used as a catch-all phrase for rock music from underground artists in the 1980s, all music descended from punk rock (including punk itself, New Wave, and post-punk), and, ironically, for rock music in general in the 1990s and 2000s.

 
 
No comments required to the definition of Alternative (With capital A) used.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 03 2007 at 14:31
            
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:26
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ none of what you describe above can be heard on Kid A.
 
Honestly I hear it LOL
 
This is subjective, specially when a band generates so dicvided o'pinions as in this case.
 
Iván


exactly.... and since this is an inclusive site... they sould be included since none of us thinks they know better than anyone else do they.   Opinoins are very devided..which in my prog-view is a good thing. Prog is a road well travelled.. if you can say...yes.. that is prog.. it's probably because you've heard it a 100 times.. and done even better.  Radiohead is prog.. and will thrown my considerable stubborness to make sure they stay in AR.  Which can be quite considerable LOLWink
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:22
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ none of what you describe above can be heard on Kid A.
 
Honestly I hear it LOL
 
This is subjective, specially when a band generates so dicvided o'pinions as in this case.
 
Iván
            
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Points: 4088 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:21
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Alternative to what? The mainstream? In which case Prog fills thet nicely and is also "alternative".
 
You got that right, I have to admit... But some will not like this statement at all !
 
Here's aClap for your courage to say this !
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:19
Alternative to what? The mainstream? In which case Prog fills thet nicely and is also "alternative".
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:18
^ none of what you describe above can be heard on Kid A.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:15
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ maybe you're just more "genre elitist" than me. Radiohead are an alternative band, and part of a "genre" which is called "Alternative Experimental" by some. In a way these bands relate to modern prog like the "Krautrock" bands related to the Prog Rock bands of the 70s. Technically bands like Can aren't "Prog Rock" either ... but their presence is tolerated by most prog fans.

But why do you insist that they're moved to prog related ... do you really think that albums like Kid A or Amnesiac are not progressive enough? There are far less complex bands in the archives ... and I'm not talking about borderline bands like Rhapsody or Nightwish.
 
Mike I'm not insisting in anything I clearly stated:
  1. They are here to stay.
  2. They are Art Rock's team call
  3. They have already gave an opinion that I respect.

But if I'm asked my opinion, I won't lie, I see them barely Prog in a couple of albums, but the repetitive essense of their music the variations over the same theme, the clear references to REM, Pearl Jam and Talking Heads, their own iinfluence on Btritpop bands like Coldplay and Muse, the "I give a damn for life" sound a la Nirvana, make me think in the word Alternative ecvery time I listen them. 

Iván
            
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Points: 21711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 14:05
^ maybe you're just more "genre elitist" than me. Radiohead are an alternative band, and part of a "genre" which is called "Alternative Experimental" by some. In a way these bands relate to modern prog like the "Krautrock" bands related to the Prog Rock bands of the 70s. Technically bands like Can aren't "Prog Rock" either ... but their presence is tolerated by most prog fans.

But why do you insist that they're moved to prog related ... do you really think that albums like Kid A or Amnesiac are not progressive enough? There are far less complex bands in the archives ... and I'm not talking about borderline bands like Rhapsody or Nightwish.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 13:53
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

@Iván:



BTW: Personally I think that either position is too extreme to be applied in real life ... I use a bit of both worlds. Radiohead are an alternative band ... they started as an alternative rock band (although I think that Pablo Honey is a bit underrated - compare it to other successful brit rock/pop bands of the time and you'll notice the difference), and as much as they evolved they are still related to that style, which is not very compatible with the spirit of 70s prog rock ... alternative rock doesn't sit too well with "prog snobs". I don't mean that in any derogative way ... I'm one myself, at least to some extent. But eventually the snobism changes into close-mindedness, if we're not careful ...

 
You hit the nail in the head Mike.
 
I believe Radiohead belongs in Prog Archives (I even reviewed one of their albums), has a lot of Alternative/Indie elements and some Prog too, but IMHO belongs in Prog Related being that they are not a 100% Prog band.
 
Iván
 
 
            
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Points: 21711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 13:29
@Iván:

I did not quote your answer in order to keep this post short ... I respect your opinion but I just don't think it is representative of the "public opinion". This includes the archives and all the major (and minor) websites as well as the countless magazines and every music fan in the world.

I think that Certif1ed is completely right with his definition of prog, and using this definition Radiohead fit in very well. However, this very abstract and logical definition differs from a "genre elitist" type of definition. It includes much more genres and styles as long as the music is sufficiently complex in various basic aspects, while the "genre elitists" tend to emphasize the stylistic similarities rather than the musical properties. I mean that for them a band that sounds like 70s Genesis has a good chance of being accepted as prog, even if the music itself is only a re-hash of the original.

BTW: Personally I think that either position is too extreme to be applied in real life ... I use a bit of both worlds. Radiohead are an alternative band ... they started as an alternative rock band (although I think that Pablo Honey is a bit underrated - compare it to other successful brit rock/pop bands of the time and you'll notice the difference), and as much as they evolved they are still related to that style, which is not very compatible with the spirit of 70s prog rock ... alternative rock doesn't sit too well with "prog snobs". I don't mean that in any derogative way ... I'm one myself, at least to some extent. But eventually the snobism changes into close-mindedness, if we're not careful ...

In the words of Dream Theater: "seasons change and so must I" ... Times are changing, and so does Prog. With a new generation of people, would it really be surprising that we also get a new generation of prog ... which is as different to the classic prog as the people of the new generation are to their parents?
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Floydian42 View Drop Down
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Points: 846 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 13:23
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Floydian42 Floydian42 wrote:



Barley anything on Amnesiac and Kid A is Alternative or Indie. Ok, Pablo Honey and the Bends we're, and I think Ok Computer is Roughly 50/50. That Leaves Hail to the Thief, which I am sure (minus two or three songs) is neither Alternative or Indie. 

So If you haven't listened to all there stuff, I can see why you'd be saying that, but if you have I wonder what exactly your definition of Alternative and Indie is.
 
Please Floydian, if you knew me you wouldn't accuse me of writting anything without having heard it, I have heard each and every Radiohead album and for me it's Indie/Alternative in it's greatest part, maybe one Prog Related albums at the most.
 
That's my opinion but you can google Radiohead Indie/Alternative (Very specific) and you will find 51,000 links, If you check for the more Generic Radiohead Alternative, you will find 1'490,000 links, if you google for Radiohead Indie, you will find 1'650,000 links, so I'm not alone.
 
I have quoted the most reliable Prog sites and 4 out of 7 (Not counting PA) don't even mention Radiohead in their database.
 
If you trust more in mainstream sites, check Allmusic:
 
 
So both, most of the Prog sites and mainstream sites agree in something, it's not Prog and Allmusic describes them as Alternative and Indie plus Britpop.
 
 
This appears before BBC's Interview to Radiohead after Hail to the Thief:
 
Quote

Rock's most unlikely superstars Radiohead have returned to the fray with their sixth album Hail To The Thief.

Hailed as the saviours of indie rock and pilloried as pained miserablists in equal measure, the band have swapped their recent experimental sound for something more akin to The Bends and OK Computer.

 
BTW: All Radiohead albums since OK Computer except Hail to the Thief won or were nomenees for the Grammy Awards for the Best Alternative albums, prices that they accepted.
 
So, it's clear, I never talk without support, even when my main source of information is my own knowledge which is probably very limited but I trust in it.
 
Now, it's not my call to move them but Art Rock's team and they have expressed their opinion which I absolutely respect, but don't try to make me change my opinion because I won't do it and don't insinuate I write smething without having heard it, because that's not how I act.
 
Iván
 
 


I apologize, Don't mean to falsely accuse, I just mean to say most people judge on only a few things they have heard, so I've grown used to expecting that.

Alright, so other website site Radiohead as Alternative/Indie. Both you and I know Prog isn't a very common title, and anyway, I still want to know why you don't consider them prog.... or better yet how you justify albums such as Amnesiac and Kid A as Alternative and Indie.

(And no, I know I'm not going to say your opinion, I doubt anyone would from a random stranger on the internet. I just like knowing the answer.)


Edited by Floydian42 - March 03 2007 at 13:27
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Points: 3089 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2007 at 13:12
I was a britpop fan in the 90s with Oasis, Verve, Blur, Travis, etc. as major favourites. I liked Radiohead albums, OK Computer the most. I felt it as both good and accessible. Then I heard samples form Kid A and understood nothing - they had changed and evolved beyonf my comprehension from that time, and didn't interest me anymore. So yes there is a strong connection with alternative britpop of the time, and at times identity. However they did reach something the normal britpop and alternative fan, like me,  couldn't understand. I'll try to have a listen to their latter albums and come back telling if that something is prog or not.
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