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Topic ClosedDouble-bass drumming...
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Poll Question: Do you like it?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [0.93%]
82 [75.93%]
18 [16.67%]
4 [3.70%]
2 [1.85%]
1 [0.93%]
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The T View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 26 2007 at 22:05
A recent poll about power-metal gave me the idea for this poll. So what do you say?
 
I like double bass but in small doses when it fits the music, like The Dream, Shadow Gallery and most any good prog-metal band.... I don't like it when it's the only resource of the drummer like in most power-metal and most extreme metal.... Let me tell you: if you're a beginning drummer and want to impress an audience, play some double-bass and throw whatever you want on top of that with your hands, and everybody but the true connosieurs will be dazzled by your performance!Big%20smile... but those who know about the instrument will know better and will demand something new, something truly virtuose, not just a display of how strong your leg muscles are....
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Points: 8191 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 22:06
Not usually, but an exception is Ginger Baker. his occasional double-bass drumming is always masterliness!
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I would be ok with double bass drumming if it was artistically justified, which it is not in about 90% of the cases, in my opinion; it is usually just a case of too much testosterone. If Earnest Hemingway had been a drummer instead of a writer, he would have used double bass drums too.

Edited by BaldFriede - February 27 2007 at 03:54


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Points: 13773 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 22:30
I have a lot of music with double bass,and put up with it.I just think the music would be better without it.
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Points: 8844 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 22:39
A double-kick drum or pedal can be useful, but not when just playing 16th or 32nd notes.  If you're using it to play creative parts that also happen to be fast, that's fine.   But if you're just playing straight-up 16th notes and not doing anything artistic, that's not fine.  That's just boring.  

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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2007 at 22:46
When it fits its fine, but I think it only fits in very very few situations. Examples I can think of off my head, Portnoy's double bass in "The Glass Prison" terrible, in "When The Water Breaks" fantastic.
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I love it. Of course it's not right for all music, and most music I listen to is devoid of double bass, but in the right situation, it can be just jawdropping. There are so many instances where I have just been floored by double bass.
 
A few case-in points, Amon Amarth's "Death In Fire" (after the intro, the double-bass just goes off like a machine-gun, beautiful), the intro of "Shadowfear" off of Vader's last album "Impressions In Blood", Martin Lopez also has some great double-bass lines with Opeth, and even the Professor himself Neil Peart throws in the occassional double bass for his massive drum solo on Rush in Rio.


Edited by lightbulb_son - February 26 2007 at 23:06
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there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway.
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Points: 12600 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 00:40

Yes- when it fits the music- I think some bands have a hard time combining both double bass drumming AND musicallity.



Edited by Drew - February 27 2007 at 00:40



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"Yes, when it fits the music"

Finally - a choice with which I find myself in perfect agreement!Big%20smile
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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 03:04
Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway.


Why only use one bass drum when you have two legs? It's like playing guitar parts with downstrokes only when you could use alternate picking. A waste of energy!Wink
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 03:27
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway.


Why only use one bass drum when you have two legs? It's like playing guitar parts with downstrokes only when you could use alternate picking. A waste of energy!Wink

That's nonsense, Mike, and you know it. I would agree with you if the other foot didn't do anything with drummers who only use one bass drum, but that's of course not true. If you use the devcice of two bass drums, you have to give up one of the nicest things about drumming: Elegantly counterpointing the rhythm with a hi-hat. The only thing you get with double bass drums is a stress on every single note, but musically that makes as much sense as repeating the letter "a" again and again in a novel. It is nothing more than "Kraftmeierei", an untranslatable German word.
Oh, and by the way:  Why does no-one ever think of using two hi-hats? Wink


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Points: 427 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 03:38
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway.


Why only use one bass drum when you have two legs? It's like playing guitar parts with downstrokes only when you could use alternate picking. A waste of energy!Wink

That's nonsense, Mike, and you know it. I would agree with you if the other foot didn't do anything with drummers who only use one bass drum, but that's of course not true. If you use the devcice of two bass drums, you have to give up one of the nicest things about drumming: Elegantly counterpointing the rhythm with a hi-hat. The only thing you get with double bass drums is a stress on every single note, but musically that makes as much sense as repeating the letter "a" again and again in a novel. It is nothing more than "Kraftmeierei", an untranslatable German word.
Oh, and by the way:  Why does no-one ever think of using two hi-hats? Wink




Clap Baldfriede, I couldn't agree with you more! Both on this and your first post in the thread.
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Points: 4202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 03:46
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I would be ok with double bass drumming if it was artistically justiied, which it is not in about 90% of the cases, in my opinion; it is usually just a case of too much testosterone.


Yes! And I prefer it in music that's also a product of too much testosterone. Like Slayer. The soundtrack of my teens! Not in prog.
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 04:01
By the way: I voted for "I prefer double bass guitar", like Magma occasionally do. There is a YouTube video of them where you can see that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehU3-Wxkuk4


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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 05:01
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway.


Why only use one bass drum when you have two legs? It's like playing guitar parts with downstrokes only when you could use alternate picking. A waste of energy!Wink

That's nonsense, Mike, and you know it. I would agree with you if the other foot didn't do anything with drummers who only use one bass drum, but that's of course not true. If you use the devcice of two bass drums, you have to give up one of the nicest things about drumming: Elegantly counterpointing the rhythm with a hi-hat. The only thing you get with double bass drums is a stress on every single note, but musically that makes as much sense as repeating the letter "a" again and again in a novel. It is nothing more than "Kraftmeierei", an untranslatable German word.
Oh, and by the way:  Why does no-one ever think of using two hi-hats? Wink


That post sounds like you never listened to good drummers who happen to use two bass drums - or you did listen to them and are now ignoring the fact that they don't use them for blast beats all the time. Of course three things are obviously clear:

  1. There are things you can only play with two bass drums. So if drummers want to play these things they need an additional bass drum ... even if they only use that additional drum for 5% of the time, they still need it. Just like I said in the other thread ... it's like guitarists playing only downstrokes, or pianists for example ... in the classic piece "Für Elise", the fast single-note sequence is played with two fingers even if good pianists could play it with one finger.
  2. You don't have to give up anything if you occasionally use double bass rhythms. On the contrary: By occasionally using extremely tight and "rigid" rhythms the sparse and syncopated passages are even more enjoyable (at least to me - I pointed out many times how important contrast/dynamics are for me).
  3. I don't know any drummer who has removed the hi-hat from his kit and *replaced* it with a bass drum. Suggesting that double bass drummers don't use the hi-hat anymore is (please excuse me) plain silly and ridiculous.
I'll post some examples later - tracks which serve as a good example of "tasteful" double bass playing. Smile
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When it fits the music

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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 05:20
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by willy willy wrote:

there are very few drummers that I accept double bass from.  As said above, Ginger Baker is one of them. Its very possibly to play a single bass at the same speed as double (JoJo Mayer anyone?), and given that, there are very few things you *need* a double bass for.  If anything it just drowns out the rest of the music anyway.


Why only use one bass drum when you have two legs? It's like playing guitar parts with downstrokes only when you could use alternate picking. A waste of energy!Wink

That's nonsense, Mike, and you know it. I would agree with you if the other foot didn't do anything with drummers who only use one bass drum, but that's of course not true. If you use the devcice of two bass drums, you have to give up one of the nicest things about drumming: Elegantly counterpointing the rhythm with a hi-hat. The only thing you get with double bass drums is a stress on every single note, but musically that makes as much sense as repeating the letter "a" again and again in a novel. It is nothing more than "Kraftmeierei", an untranslatable German word.
Oh, and by the way:  Why does no-one ever think of using two hi-hats? Wink


That post sounds like you never listened to good drummers who happen to use two bass drums - or you did listen to them and are now ignoring the fact that they don't use them for blast beats all the time. Of course three things are obviously clear:

  1. There are things you can only play with two bass drums. So if drummers want to play these things they need an additional bass drum ... even if they only use that additional drum for 5% of the time, they still need it. Just like I said in the other thread ... it's like guitarists playing only downstrokes, or pianists for example ... in the classic piece "Für Elise", the fast single-note sequence is played with two fingers even if good pianists could play it with one finger.
  2. You don't have to give up anything if you occasionally use double bass rhythms. On the contrary: By occasionally using extremely tight and "rigid" rhythms the sparse and syncopated passages are even more enjoyable (at least to me - I pointed out many times how important contrast/dynamics are for me).
  3. I don't know any drummer who has removed the hi-hat from his kit and *replaced* it with a bass drum. Suggesting that double bass drummers don't use the hi-hat anymore is (please excuse me) plain silly and ridiculous.
I'll post some examples later - tracks which serve as a good example of "tasteful" double bass playing. Smile

Mike, you'd be surprised what you can do with a single bass drum if you have the right technique. I play a lot of really complicated stuff on the bass drum, but never found it necessary to have two bass drums for what I want to play.
I did not suggest that drummers who use two bass drums never use a hi-hat. But obviously they can't use it when they play their bass drums. And for me something essential is missing if there is no hi-hat in it. It is all about "balancing", in my opinion.
If some drummers think it is necessary for them to have two bass drums, let them. But I don't have to like it. And I don't.


Edited by BaldFriede - February 27 2007 at 05:28


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Points: 21319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 05:41
^ here's a video that should be interesting to watch for any drummer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inhckpMxxdo

Big%20smile ... around 2:25 he plays an interesting mix of ultra-fast double bass and hi-hat "simulated" with a very small cymbal.
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Points: 10266 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2007 at 05:50
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ here's a video that should be interesting to watch for any drummer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inhckpMxxdo

Big%20smile ... around 2:25 he plays an interesting mix of ultra-fast double bass and hi-hat "simulated" with a very small cymbal.

Now really, Mike, I would have expected something better from you. Do you really consider that tasteful drumming? Jeeze, he even did some stick twirling! Sorry, Mike, that doesn't impress me at all. A good technician, but also very definitely someone whose drumming borders on the tastelessness. Show effects. If you like that... <shrug>
This one is more my cup of tea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3lYRqcjP6I
I admit there are some "show effects" in it too, but of a completely different kind. You don't have to be whirling all the time to play a good drum solo; it soon gets boring.


Edited by BaldFriede - February 27 2007 at 06:05


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