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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 07:24 |
I don't think there's any merit in marking an album with more stars than you personally feel it's worth based on how much you enjoyed it. If you're over-generous because you think most people will like it, then let THOSE PEOPLE grade it and allow yourself the luxury of giving it the low score you wanted to. ;)
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 07:15 |
I agree that endless band bashing is very tedious. I think I've given very few 1 star reviews and some of those I wonder whether I've been harsh afterwards. But I don't think there any prog bands I hate enough to trash, certainly not on personal issues- even ones I wouldn't go out of my way for, like Dream Theater, I have given various 3/4 star reviews to their albums, because they are enjoyable albums by anyone's standards (Awake and SFAM) even when there are elements I dislike about the band (and they've grown on me recently anyway).
Likewise, I've been rewriting a few of my older, over-zealous reviews where I had perhaps been over generous. I try to keep away from the fanboy track (some of my older reviews sail perilously close ) as I too now find gushing 5 star reviews without much justification, and come off like blind praise of a band, to be just as damaging to a band as 1 star reviews. Remember the Octavarium debacle around 2 years ago? I think that created even more hostility/suspicion towards DT. I've seen the same thing happen with new Tool and Mars Volta albums as well.
Edited by salmacis - February 06 2007 at 07:16
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 05:20 |
prog-chick wrote:
Hi Chaps.........
I think maybe I didn't make myself clear back in the begining....... I didn't mean I only wanted to see positive reviews. But I felf it a little unjust to see some one-star reviews that were down right rude and written with spite and based on lies and malice......... that surely can not be good for an objective overview of an album?
The lines between fact and opinion are easily blurred and never more so than in a "this is truly awful, they can't write, they can't sing, they can't play" type of review.
I enjoy the reviews here, I like to search out different artists or albums.... but I don't like to see lies and opinon dressed up as hard fact. it stinks. I seem to have caused more foroar by saying that though than if I wrote a bunch of nonsense about some hard working band. |
You made yourself perfectly clear. This is the way with threads though, they soon become what others want it to be!
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 05:18 |
You've provoked a lively debate PC, and that must be a good thing!
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65268
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 03:45 |
There is a way to write something disapproving without it being ugly or purely subjective. I once wrote a bad review for a Bill Bruford album but I started it with how much I love and respect Bill Bruford.
Edited by Atavachron - February 06 2007 at 03:47
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The Whistler
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 30 2006
Location: LA, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 7113
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 03:41 |
What if you said: "To be perfectly fair, in a word, this album...uh, sucks. Luckily, we have room for more than one word in a review, but my thesaurus is kinda long, so grab a soda."
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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kazansky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 24 2006
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 5085
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 03:39 |
I agree with that. I don't have problem with people who dislike some works by some bands. However, i don't think that calling an album rubbish, junk, etc. just because you don't like what you hear is a very good move.
Edited by kazansky - February 06 2007 at 03:41
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The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: February 06 2007 at 03:31 |
Hi Chaps.........
I think maybe I didn't make myself clear back in the begining....... I didn't mean I only wanted to see positive reviews. But I felf it a little unjust to see some one-star reviews that were down right rude and written with spite and based on lies and malice......... that surely can not be good for an objective overview of an album?
The lines between fact and opinion are easily blurred and never more so than in a "this is truly awful, they can't write, they can't sing, they can't play" type of review.
I enjoy the reviews here, I like to search out different artists or albums.... but I don't like to see lies and opinon dressed up as hard fact. it stinks. I seem to have caused more foroar by saying that though than if I wrote a bunch of nonsense about some hard working band.
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soundsweird
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 408
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 23:36 |
In the beginning, all I did here was read album reviews. Now, I pay far less attention to them, and I haven't written a review in a long time.
Some reasons:
The honeymoon's over.... (been here awhile now)
Too much Progressive Metal and other stuff I abhor
Too many reviewers with no command of the English language
The forums are much more interesting
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:38 |
The T wrote:
Zappa88 wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review. |
Thats a good idea, even though the reviews reporting thread will almost cease to exist after that |
yeah.... wait a minute.... some under-paid cop will lose his job....
If I were you, I'd defend guest-reviews with my life.... it's your job man!!!
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Yup, my only importance on this site is bashing poorly written n00b-reviews! Oh man, when you put it that way, if guest reviews go then I'll be out of a job
I'll end up like that homeless guy that impersonated Peter Criss and lived under a bridge while he pan-handled for nickels
Edited by Zappa88 - February 05 2007 at 14:38
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Beauty will save the world.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:35 |
Zappa88 wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review. |
Thats a good idea, even though the reviews reporting thread will almost cease to exist after that |
yeah.... wait a minute.... some under-paid cop will lose his job....
If I were you, I'd defend guest-reviews with my life.... it's your job man!!!
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:34 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Teo, don't panic, please... By 'guest' we mean people who are not forum members, and you are. As to now, reviews by people who have no forum ID can still be posted - in the future, they won't be any longer. |
in that case, my dearest Dream Theater worshipper, I would say:
I have a paranoia problem from time to time.... It manifests once a month.
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Chris H
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 08 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 8191
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:32 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review. |
Thats a good idea, even though the reviews reporting thread will almost cease to exist after that
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Beauty will save the world.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:32 |
prog-chick wrote:
I
The other thing that I often think about........ is IF an album is truly SO bad, WHY waste your precious (& superior) time writing about it? |
Man I would guess in that case is even more correct to write a review, a respectful, well-written review of course. I mean, you could help some people save some money if they choose to follow your comments.
I think the important is to make yourslef clear, put arguments for your position, no matter what it is. If people here want only praise-filled reviews, well, what's the point? What's the point about writing anything, about art criticism? Man, I say all of these because some people think "journalism" is something bad or anything.... I guess then everybody should write for newspapers and in good books... well, the internet will take care of that in a few decades, anyway. I feel attacked because I study journalism and I would like, please, if you (not you Prog-chick but everybody ) can refer to any profession with more respect.
Peace on earth. And let T's rain from heaven.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:30 |
Teo, don't panic, please... By 'guest' we mean people who are not forum members, and you are. As to now, reviews by people who have no forum ID can still be posted - in the future, they won't be any longer.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 14:25 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review. |
By "guest" you mean guests guests (?) or just review-guests? I mean, I'm a guest, many others are guest... Would that mean all our reviews are no more? I can't write reviews no more? I'm a forum member but in the review site I'm listed only as guest. I may fall for sentimentalism form time to time, but hey, IT'S MUSIC, it's not an exact science, so I think we can put some feeling into our reviews. Some people put so much "effort" into their reviews but as they limit themselves to say "x is good" then nobody has a problem with those. I really can't see guest reviewers going out. ON the other hand, if you say "guest" meaning a forum guest, then I agree completely, we would get rid of a lot of poorly written reviews.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 13:55 |
Guest reviews will soon be stopped. All reviewers will need to have registered with the forum before they can post a review.
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 12:24 |
I give considerable thought to the number of stars I will give a recording and probably feel a whole lot more pressure to justify my reasoning when I'm giving a 1 star rating. It's nothing personal about the artist(s) because I sincerely feel they probably did the best they could on a particular project but if an album is a total waste of $15 or $20 bucks then I feel just as compelled to warn others who might be tempted to buy it.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006
Location: OH
Status: Offline
Points: 4981
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 12:03 |
Quotes from Prog Chick's original post:
"It got me thinking though, the majority of 1 star (or indeed 5 star) reviews are guest reviews rather than collabs or admins etc."
That's because fans with no real attachment to the site think that every album they like is a masterpiece and don't take the time actually read the guidelines. It reminds me of a "four hundred greatest rock albums" so you'd like to guide on Amazon, which casually remarked that every single one was a masterpiece. Well, for me to have four hundred masterpieces (I know 6 masterpieces in about 200 albums), I would have to know 13333 albums...
"Also I find some of these reviews incredible! I started to wonder what do we expect from our musicians? and because we have a pc at our disposal and the ability to "publish" a review of a body of work, does that tempt some folk over the edge with power? "
Yes, it does make them feel they have power. Lots of guest reviewers openly state that they are giving it a rating only to affect the overall rating of the album on the site. They think that these rankings actually matter, and they like having the power to change it.
"Some reviews I have read have been border line libel/defamation of the artists, or the artists work. I guess they remain on the site because they are given the "In my honest opinion" tag........ does IMHO really alow one to get away with really awful/untrue comments about a body of work or about a musician? "
These are indeed a problem... and IMHO should not be an excuse to get away with this crap. How you like an album is an opinion. Facts are not opinions. Facts are hard facts, and they cannot be changed. Writing an honest one star review in which you explain why think the album is actively BAD is one thing (I do that), but writing hate mail with some insignificant comments added in to fit the guidelines is not.
"The other thing that I often think about........ is IF an album is truly SO bad, WHY waste your precious (& superior) time writing about it?"
Here, I have to disagree. Writing one star reviews is important, because you don't want other people to stumble on a bad album. If all reviews were 4 and 5 stars, it would be impossible to use the ratings to determine if an album is good or not.
"IF you REALLY don't like a band.......... is it necessary to sl*g off EVERY album they make?"
If you REALLY don't like a band... why do you have more than two of their albums. Are you a masochist?
For the most part, I agree with you (except the one time otherwise noted). That's why we should do away with guest reviews and ratings without reviews. If you really want to make your opinion known on an album, you can take five minutes to create an account, and you can scrape 50 words together that express how you feel (without being rude or untruthful). IMHO .
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2696
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Posted: February 05 2007 at 11:45 |
Sean Trane wrote:
So they print a book, a movie, a record, a serigraphy, a painting etc.... This means that they want a feedback. If you are afraid of negative feedback, don't publish; keep your art to yourself.
i think a good reviewer should use one star as he does 5 stars: sparingly. |
I am not really thinking about negative feed back, I think that everyone has a right to dislike something, and to say that they dislike it. But some reviews go beyond that and rather than state that something is disliked, a review might say that someone is unable which I think is a very different kettle of fish.
This is the point where I start to question the validity of a review. Or look into the credentials of the reviewer........
I believe that all artists are used to criticism and like you say it comes with the territory, however should insults/libel/defamation/out and out lies be accepted under the guise of "opinon"? Should a review be a personal slant against the musician rather than an opinion on the body of work they produce?
I don't want it to look like I am getting "bolshy" about this, I am genuinely curious.
I think (because I have been witness to this) that some fans will cultivate more "competition" or "rivalry" between two or more bands where there is none amongst the musicians, and to enhance the profile of their favourite artist will give poor reviews to those they see as a rival. Which I think is poor sport.
There is this thing I say to my kids "make yourslf look good by doing good things, not by making others look bad"
P-C
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