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donalds View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Split Enz
    Posted: May 08 2006 at 22:14
I like this site, but I think Split Enz should be on it, given their early roots in a mixture of art rock - progressive rock during the early - mid 1970s..Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2006 at 19:21
Originally posted by donalds donalds wrote:

I like this site, but I think Split Enz should be on it, given their early roots in a mixture of art rock - progressive rock during the early - mid 1970s..Tongue
I've been telling them this for a while now but they keep snubbing me, its really bizarre how the collaborators don't see them as progressive other websites count them as prog; wikipedia and new gibralter encyclpedia. They were considered art rock in their day, their music was unusual; the use of vaudivalle on songs is just weird ( I mean it in a good way), they had an unreleased 15 minute epic, but had mini suites like Walking Down a Road, Stranger than Fiction- a warped out 7 minute track with strange singing styles  narration, and change of themes. Also on dizrythemia album there is themed songs like Crosswords which just sounds crazy, and heaps of others, but the collaborators must be deaf or something, I can't see how Enz arn't prog, I told my friends that this website snubbed them and they thought it was really bizarre, I don't know what mp3's they heard but if it was during the prog period then clearly the admin arn't cut out for prog.
I just can't believe the admin don't see Enz as prog, and yet have groups like Roxy music snd Primus. IMHO they're must be biased or deaf.Cry 



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2006 at 22:58

Maybe it's the old videos with the very 80's hairstyle that throws people off? Maybe it's the singles sound 80's new wave?

"they locked up a man who wanted to rule the world.
the fools
they locked up the wrong man."
- Leonard Cohen
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2006 at 03:39
I looks like the admin might have a closer inspection on Enz, if any of you guys could give mp3's from their albums Second Thoughts or Mental Notes especially, or else theband's bio for the admin to sample, it would really helpful. I've given their official web address.
Cheers.Smile



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2007 at 09:51
Hi Michael,
 
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
 
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide,  Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
 
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
 
 
But upon listening to three of their first four:
 
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77),  Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
 
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
 
 
 
However from true Colours onwards
 
 
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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prefer lifting our pen
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:57

Presumably all sorts of bands from the late seventies could potentially be included? How about Ultravox (with John Fox) or The Stranglers even? That time was quite experimental although the bands were seen as opposing prog/stadium rock bands like Yes and ELP.

 So is there such a thing as 'new wave prog' or 'punk prog' despite the apparent contradiction? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 18:04
Gary Numan has had his prog moments too, listen to "ASYLUM" from a Pleasure Principle.
CYMRU AM BYTH
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:49
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Hi Michael,
 
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
 
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide,  Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
 
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
 
 
But upon listening to three of their first four:
 
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77),  Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
 
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
 
 
 
However from true Colours onwards
 
 
 
Cool I'm glad you've taken the time to find out,  many people make that mistake about Enz being just a New Wave band but when you look at their earlier catalogue when they had a rich and colourful history in prog. They actually in the earlier days performed a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede unfortunately they never rleased a studio version of it,  you can only get a live version of it on a super expensive boxed set,. but yeah they definately deserve a place in prog related.



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 03:58
Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Hi Michael,
 
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
 
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide,  Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
 
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
 
 
But upon listening to three of their first four:
 
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77),  Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
 
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
 
 
 
However from true Colours onwards .....Dead Yuckkkk!!!!....
 
 
 
Cool I'm glad you've taken the time to find out,  many people make that mistake about Enz being just a New Wave band but when you look at their earlier catalogue when they had a rich and colourful history in prog. They actually in the earlier days performed a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede unfortunately they never rleased a studio version of it,  you can only get a live version of it on a super expensive boxed set,. but yeah they definately deserve a place in prog related.
 
Since that post of mine, I am on their debut called Mental Notes (76 also) and this is their proggiest of them all.
 
Funny how they regressed voluntarily in the 80's, though. they became an electro-pop band.
 
 
Anyway, now if there was a poll, I'd probably say yes to prog-related.


Edited by Sean Trane - February 08 2007 at 03:59
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:43
Despite the best efforts of Cheesecakemouse, Split Enz have been rejected for inclusion in PA.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 12:12
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Despite the best efforts of Cheesecakemouse, Split Enz have been rejected for inclusion in PA.
 
I think he should be sentenced to six months on a leaky boat, for even suggesting them...Big%20smile
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 16:50
Originally posted by fandango fandango wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Despite the best efforts of Cheesecakemouse, Split Enz have been rejected for inclusion in PA.
 
I think he should be sentenced to six months on a leaky boat, for even suggesting them...Big%20smile

Very witty. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:36
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Hi Michael,
 
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
 
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide,  Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
 
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
 
 
But upon listening to three of their first four:
 
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77),  Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
 
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
 
 
 
However from true Colours onwards .....Dead Yuckkkk!!!!....
 
 
 
Cool I'm glad you've taken the time to find out,  many people make that mistake about Enz being just a New Wave band but when you look at their earlier catalogue when they had a rich and colourful history in prog. They actually in the earlier days performed a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede unfortunately they never rleased a studio version of it,  you can only get a live version of it on a super expensive boxed set,. but yeah they definately deserve a place in prog related.
 
Since that post of mine, I am on their debut called Mental Notes (76 also) and this is their proggiest of them all.
 
Funny how they regressed voluntarily in the 80's, though. they became an electro-pop band.
 
 
Anyway, now if there was a poll, I'd probably say yes to prog-related.
 
I did make a poll for them in the suggest bands place, it was pretty inconclusive since it focussed on their 70s recordings and most people are are unaware of that period.
And with Enz regressing to pop the sad fact of the matter was nobody was buying their albums, twice the band almost completely collapsed, Phil Judd went a bit crazy and left, so it was up to Tim Finn to guide them and during the hostlie period to prog they had to basically become pop out of survival, its impossible to be a band in NZ that only has a cult following in NZ and Australia since both countries have very low populations and therefore record sales are low as a result, because of that I an sympathetic to them going pop unlike Genesis who were still making money being prog.
I also heard that Tim Finn preferred pop songs to prog, he said he was tired of the 'excesses' of prog, that was in 1993 when he said that, he may have changed his mind now. I f notAngryAngryAngry
Sean you should get their DVD, their early music videos are really bizarre and it has some live clips of their earlier over the top shows, or else I guess there is youtube.
 But for me personally I think they jumped the shark at conflicting emotions (boy that album sucks) , before that even when they were pop they still had a bit of the left over wackiness from early days. Oh well thats my opinion.



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2007 at 00:44
Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Hi Michael,
 
upon the few threads that were opened on this band, I had put Split enz on my investigation list, and I finally heard their first three albums.
 
All I knew before was from 1980's True Colors album (the one that came in four different colours artworks (as Genesis would the next year with Abacrap) and they supêrb laser-etched disc. Their subsequent discs (Time & Tide,  Conflicting Emotions etc...) were typically new wave (they looked like Elvis Costello look-alikes). So I had voted no!
 
But I had no idea that the band existed for so long before that one album.
 
 
But upon listening to three of their first four:
 
Second Toughts (76), Dizrythmia (77),  Frenzy (78), I know understand why you ask for their inclusions. Certainly they are no less prog than Queen, 10CC , Roxy Music and other groups that are in prog related. Just like The Sparks, these guys could easily fit in the prog-related category.
 
They used Mellotrons until 78, and although they can be poppy, they are no more than previously mentioned other bands.
 
 
 
However from true Colours onwards .....Dead Yuckkkk!!!!....
 
 
 
Cool I'm glad you've taken the time to find out,  many people make that mistake about Enz being just a New Wave band but when you look at their earlier catalogue when they had a rich and colourful history in prog. They actually in the earlier days performed a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede unfortunately they never rleased a studio version of it,  you can only get a live version of it on a super expensive boxed set,. but yeah they definately deserve a place in prog related.
 
Since that post of mine, I am on their debut called Mental Notes (76 also) and this is their proggiest of them all.
 
Funny how they regressed voluntarily in the 80's, though. they became an electro-pop band.
 
 
Anyway, now if there was a poll, I'd probably say yes to prog-related.
 
I did make a poll for them in the suggest bands place, it was pretty inconclusive since it focussed on their 70s recordings and most people are are unaware of that period.
And with Enz regressing to pop the sad fact of the matter was nobody was buying their albums, twice the band almost completely collapsed, Phil Judd went a bit crazy and left, so it was up to Tim Finn to guide them and during the hostlie period to prog they had to basically become pop out of survival, its impossible to be a band in NZ that only has a cult following in NZ and Australia since both countries have very low populations and therefore record sales are low as a result, because of that I an sympathetic to them going pop unlike Genesis who were still making money being prog.
I also heard that Tim Finn preferred pop songs to prog, he said he was tired of the 'excesses' of prog, that was in 1993 when he said that, he may have changed his mind now. I f notAngryAngryAngry
Sean you should get their DVD, their early music videos are really bizarre and it has some live clips of their earlier over the top shows, or else I guess there is youtube.
 But for me personally I think they jumped the shark at conflicting emotions (boy that album sucks) , before that even when they were pop they still had a bit of the left over wackiness from early days. Oh well thats my opinion.


I would like to ask that you give Time & Tide another listen. Of all the Split Enz albums, it is the most serious, both in lyrical & musical content. If you listen to album ending trilogy - Haul Away, Log Cabin & Make sense of it, you'll find it hard to describe it as new wave or plain pop. It's haunting, personal & thought provoking ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2007 at 00:52
Time  & Tide was b4 Conflicting Emotions, their last listenable album, actually Haul away is heavily influenced by a Gentle Giant song on the album Free Hand. I think Time and Tide is an ok album, the band members consider it their best album, a great AOR album, but if Enz was on this website I'd give it only 3 stars because it is not that proggy. But yes it certainly is a very personal album and I guess Pioneer/Six Months in a Leaky Boat is a mini prog song.
 



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2007 at 03:42
Originally posted by PROGMAN PROGMAN wrote:

Gary Numan has had his prog moments too, listen to "ASYLUM" from a Pleasure Principle.
 
I'm also convinced that Tubeway Army - Replicas is a prog album in its entirety.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2007 at 16:37
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Presumably all sorts of bands from the late seventies could potentially be included? How about Ultravox (with John Fox) or The Stranglers even? That time was quite experimental although the bands were seen as opposing prog/stadium rock bands like Yes and ELP.

 So is there such a thing as 'new wave prog' or 'punk prog' despite the apparent contradiction? 
 
There is a style called Art punk, Devo was under that style, and Talking Heads started in that way but went beyond that when Brian Eno became their producer.



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2007 at 18:52
Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Presumably all sorts of bands from the late seventies could potentially be included? How about Ultravox (with John Fox) or The Stranglers even? That time was quite experimental although the bands were seen as opposing prog/stadium rock bands like Yes and ELP.

 So is there such a thing as 'new wave prog' or 'punk prog' despite the apparent contradiction? 
 
There is a style called Art punk, Devo was under that style, and Talking Heads started in that way but went beyond that when Brian Eno became their producer.

Re : Talking Heads, if you take into consideration that prog is often considered pompous by others, I would say the Talking Heads head space was located in the pompous part of the inbreeding New York culture critique clique. Or to re-phrase that quote justifying Velvet Underground's "importance" to rock music - "Not too many people bought their albums, but those who did went on to become rock critics".Tongue

P.S. I have a friend who thinks the world of TH, & he is very intelligent; so if I offend anyone, I must say it's IMHO, & I have much to be humble about.
P.P.S. at least Devo had a sense of humor; for a while anyway.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2007 at 03:32

Split Enz – Mental Notes StarStarStar.5 (almost four)

 

I was always a bit confused whether this was the first album or would it be the infamous The Beginning Of The Enz would hold that honour. In either case, this is among the first few records that are likely to interest the progheads, as opposed to their mid-period early 80’s, when the had regressed and became a new wave electro-pop group. This group is mainly the works of a duo Tim Finn (vocals and piano) and Phil Judd (vocals and guitars) which shared most (if not all the songwriting credits), but interestingly enough neither were lead instrumentalists since Wilkinson and Rayner held top solo slots on guitars and keyboards respectively. SE is a septet, but outside  a percussionist, there are no wind instruments to spice things up, but their style is sufficiently eclectic, that there is no real need for it.

 

The music is a relatively good, inventive art rock with a fairly noticeable pop inspiration. Somewhere stuck between Rundgren’s Utopia and the Queen, 10 CC, sharing a bit the frenzy, spastic and silly world of those. But if the music has a solid pop vein and none of the group members seem to be ultra virtuoso at their respective instruments, there is plenty of place for musical interplay and the frequent use of a mellotron often gives a cool symphonic edge to their music. In this regard, the almost 8-min Under The Wheel is probably one of the highlights, especially if you enjoy weird screechy crazy vocals (ala Family’s Roger Chapman). This track could’ve almost been written and played by Gabriel-era Genesis, because the guitar does resemble a certain Steve at times. Another very interesting tune for progheads is the almost 7-min Stranger Than Fiction with the strange and spooky birdsong ambiances, and bridging directly to the next poppier Time For A Change.

 

Other (shorter) tracks like Amy or So Long For Now are poppier even if there interesting twists and the Maybe and short Titus tracks all present plenty of proggy moments to satisfy most of us. Spellbound is another crazy beauty even if by the end of the album, the Chapman-vocals are getting a tad tiresome. 

 

Clearly, Spilt Enz was on a roll as they would be until the end of the decade, pumping a bunch of good popish Art Rock, but sadly their regression into the next decade is one all progheads are aware of since it happened to some of the legends of the prog movement. But in the meantime, we are left with a string of albums that are, if not essential, very worthy of the proghead’s attentions. And among this string of albums, this one is maybe the most interesting one (but not the only one) and it could fit as perfect intro.

let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2007 at 04:02
Split Enz, Devo, Talking Heads, Ultravox talked about.
 
I am wondering if it's PA, or my browser was hijacked...? 
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