The "problem" with prog metal

   

On a note more related to the discussion, I fully agree that most of the really forward thinking and creative prog-metal bands are being covered up by the hordes of Dream Theater/Symphony X clones... I've felt this way for ages, and this is exactly why I devote my time on PA to trying to expose these bands.  If people could see the truly great music that rests under this category I think it would be viewed as less of a stigma by people here.

Atavachron wrote: Bryan wrote: On a note more related to the discussion, I fully agree that most of the really forward thinking and creative prog-metal bands are being covered up by the hordes of Dream Theater/Symphony X clones... I've felt this way for ages, and this is exactly why I devote my time on PA to trying to expose these bands.  If people could see the truly great music that rests under this category I think it would be viewed as less of a stigma by people here. ...plus great progressive metal bands that aren't even considered prog metal, like the F***ing Champs.

...who aren't really prog at all.  If technicality and occasional use of interesting time signatures = prog, there are TONS of metal bands who we'd get laughed at for including that logically would have to be here.

I've learned that people claiming that metal is only about stupid riffing, purposeless violence, sounding all the same.... obviously don't know a thing about metal. The richness of the metal genre and his large panel of accessibility cannot be denied. And many groups provide a huge work on their composition, passion, skills, open-mind, originality... etc etc. So please put an end with stereotypes.
Secondly, I'm afraid some prog-purists approach prog-metal while wanting to hear prog-rock and woooow, scandalous, prog-metal reveals himself not to be classic prog-rock. Do those people really like progressive music?
A few people here basically want to tell us prog-metal isn't prog. Dishonesty? Or something like "prog=good, I don't like Dream Theater so it cannot be prog".
Face it if you can't enter metal. Personnally I cannot enter blues, but that's my problem, not the blues one - let's don't be pretentious.
One can separate the words rock and prog in prog-rock if we talk about the concept, we cannot do it if we talk about the music of Yes. Same with Pain of Salvation, Riverside, In the Woods..., Tool, Ayreon etc. It is an homogenous mixture, you couldn't say "PoS is ruined by the distorsion" or "Opeth is ruined by the growls" - doesn't have a sense.
Metal can be prog. Prog-metal can be good. This worth isn't due to some elements stolen from classic prog-rock but belongs to the prog-metal as an indivisible thing. If it then includes black metal, so be it.
Prog alone doesn't mean anything. It's an adjective, it must define a noun. There is no thing as "prog in his natural state".

Sasquamo wrote: Everlasting wrote: Prog alone doesn't mean anything. It's an adjective, it must define a noun. There is no thing as "prog in his natural state". That's exactly what I was trying to get at!  The symphonic rock called pure prog is just the musical traits of prog applied to rock music, and prog metal are those same musical traits, only applied to metal.  This said, that means prog rock is no more valid than prog metal, it just came first.  Prog is like a little virus that doesn't make music itself, but that infects all different kinds of music.  For "classic" prog and prog metal, it's the same virus, only different hosts..  Hope that made sense.

    
Makes perfect sense.

I play Dungeons and Dragons occaisonally and I love Tolkein. But bands like Dragonforce and Nightwish make me sick with their cheesiness. I can't stand it!

I like cheese!! ANy kind of cheese : cheddar, gouda, brie, you name it I eat it. Oh especially goat and sheep cheese. But, yeah, there are some definetly cheesy bands.

Bryan wrote: On a note more related to the discussion, I fully agree that most of the really forward thinking and creative prog-metal bands are being covered up by the hordes of Dream Theater/Symphony X clones... I've felt this way for ages, and this is exactly why I devote my time on PA to trying to expose these bands.  If people could see the truly great music that rests under this category I think it would be viewed as less of a stigma by people here.

I don't even know what cheesy is.  People tell me Neo-Prog is cheesy, but all I hear is good music.

^ That pretty much covers it.