PA PROG OLYMPICS CHAMPIONSHIP

Condor you went out to insult people rather than the music, that's where you went too far. You can insult any band all you want, personally I won't care much. However when you say the people who listen to that music are somehow inferior beings, you become an arrogant nuisance.

condor wrote: Firstly, I'm not the kind of jumpy person waiting to be insulted at every opportunity. If you said the same thing about Red, I'd just ignore you; you're wrong. Why would I need to be insulted? Also, try reading what I say. Offended people always simplify one's arguments into absurd extremes or dichotomy that fit their simple mind-set. I've had to explain this to many tedious people like you all my life ("you can't generalise!", "you can't say that" and other rubbish). Secondly, I said the best. I think TAAB is an excellent album but calling it the greatest is absurd. It's like selecting a comedy novel as the greatest ever written. No matter how hilarious it is, it will still be a lesser work compared to 1984, Utopia, Brave New World etc because the breadth, importance and grandeur of ideas is less. There are lots of novels I disagree with, which I prefer to many I agree with, simply because the ideas challenge and stimulate more. I'm sorry I cannot elaborate on the analogy more but think of it like this. Red is almost a music manifesto, TAAB simply a jolly narrative. I think people have been voting for the album that matches their tastes the most ("dark" people for Red; "light" people for TAAB) without considering how progressive i.e. avant-garde the album is. If more people thought like this Lord of the Rings wouldn't top the Big Read poll for greatest book nor CTTE, SEBTB or whatever for progarchives. Instead, Brave New World or 1984 and Red or Pawn Hearts would.

Once again, you have simplified and distorted what I have said. I suggested people who held works such as TAAB as the greatest achivement music has produced (not simply liking or listening to as you falesly claim) have not yet fully realized music's full emotional and progressive power.

If they think listening to TAAB induces music's highest emotions, then they are emotionally more primitive. You suggest I "insult" people because I am arrogant and enjoy putting people down. If people were not so reactionary and stubborn they might actually the see the flip-side of "insults". They only time "insults" are wrong is when they criticise characteristics people: cannot change or do not matter.

If someone considered Harry Potter the greatest novel written I would think them emotionally underdeveloped (not emotionally stupid as simple-minded believers in dichotomy will probably suggest). The same applies if you consider: Cats the greatest musical, TAAB the greatest album, Twelth Night the greatest play, Indiana Jones the greatest film.

Here's a definition of great: "of major significance or importance; "a great work of art"; "Einstein was one of the outstanding figures of the 20th centurey" Try thinking about why Einstein or Marx or Darwin were great rather than just good, then try and apply this to music. If you still think TAAB is the greatest album, you really have got your head screwed on wrong.

It seems there is always someone who tries to ruin the fun...

Edited by Firepuck - November 01 2006 at 16:25

Firepuck wrote: It seems there is always someone who tries to ruin the fun... condor, your arguments are opinions, not facts. Get off your high horse and try to involve yorself in the spirit of the competition. OpethGuitarist started this for FUN, hopefully he will continue.   Just like the real olympics the best do not always win. And someone's idea of the best will differ from anothers - just like in sports.

    Why does no one ever read what I say? Am I cursed? I said greatest, NOT best. This isn't like the Olympics where you try to run the fastest; people are creating cultural works to induce emotions. TAAB induces jollity and epicness (excuse the neologism). Red induces deep sorrow (Fallen Angel), electric evil (Red), fear (One More Red Nightmare) and sadness, deep wonder, growth & triumph (Starless). Do you understand what I mean about certain emotions being more powerful than others?
    

Edited by condor - November 01 2006 at 16:52

    "You are also making negative statements about the people who disagree with you. Just because they don't see it your way does not mean they have their heads screwed on wrong. There are more constructive ways of expressing differences of opinion."

This really takes the relativistic biscuit. I am being negative about people who disagree with me. Sorry, I respectfully think you are totally wrong. I am glad I have to put up with people who misinterpret what I say and are outraged that I think their taste imperfect.

Don't tell me. You privately treat people with equal intellectual respect even if they believe in something you hold to be fundamentally false or wrong.

Anyway, I think a nice idea for the next championship would be to promote some more not-very-well-known bands/albums for a change. I mean, everybody knows TaaB/CttE/Red/Moving Pictures, so it was more of a competition between top 20 names... the more less known albums suggested in the early stages went out after the first or second round, so I don't think this thing actually succeeded in its informative/promotional intention. Maybe next time we could avoid suggesting "giants" and see what happens with less predictable contestants.

Uroboros wrote: Anyway, I think a nice idea for the next championship would be to promote some more not-very-well-known bands/albums for a change. I mean, everybody knows TaaB/CttE/Red/Moving Pictures, so it was more of a competition between top 20 names... the more less known albums suggested in the early stages went out after the first or second round, so I don't think this thing actually succeeded in its informative/promotional intention. Maybe next time we could avoid suggesting "giants" and see what happens with less predictable contestants.

well the idea was that people chosed their album, with which to enter the game.
so we can only hope for people to go...a little more underground.

the idea of not repeating this olympics' albums is great!, let's do the next one like that.

condor wrote: This really takes the relativistic biscuit. I am being negative about people who disagree with me. Sorry, I respectfully think you are totally wrong. I am glad I have to put up with people who misinterpret what I say and are outraged that I think their taste imperfect. Don't tell me. You privately treat people with equal intellectual respect even if they believe in something you hold to be fundamentally false or wrong.

you have to try the approach of arguments, honest dialogue, not a memento statement that sound, resembles or even is an insult. it's a very rare thing up here to discuss , to argument your opposite feelings or interpretation with someone.

I have many times other opinions that someone else (just for example, over/underrated situations), but I don't think I every went ballistically upon that opposite statement of mine.

In the end, some controversy is never wrong, only how it's treated starts to affect.

Again, let's continue and finish this game, which is a fun thing, a personal result of people previously voting and eliminating, and a enclosed thing of a leisure stand....

Fallen Angel, Thick as a Brick...Fallen Angel, Thick as a Brick...