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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2006 at 06:11
Wikipedia:

"In 1973 Nakamichi created stereo cassette decks with such high quality that eventually made reel-to-reel tape recorders obsolete for consumers. The Nakamichi 1000 and 700 were regarded as two of the finest cassette recorders made in the mid-1970s. They had three heads, dual capstan drive that reduced wow and flutter to new low levels, and Dolby-B noise reduction to improve the signal to noise ratio. The feature that really set them apart was the adjustable record head azimuth and Dolby calibration that could be optimized for each cassette tape. Many audiophiles aspired to but could not afford a Nakamichi 1000 or 700 (whose model number was derived from the list price), so Nakamichi came out with more economical two-head models such as the Nakamichi 500 and the silver wedge-shaped 600.

Nakamichi pushed live recording with their Nakamichi 550, a portable cassette recorder that had three microphone inputs: one for left channel, one for right channel, and one for a center blend channel. This recorder could run from batteries or AC and was used to make very high quality recordings in the field. All of these products were known for top-notch engineering and sound quality.

In the late 1970s Nakamichi updated their machines with the Nakamichi 1000 II, the 700 II, and other midrange and low-end models, but overall they became more complex and less reliable, and prices were raised as well. They branched out into other audio components such as amplifiers and eventually speakers, but these products were never as highly regarded by the audio community as their cassette decks were.

In the early 1980s Nakamichi came out with further refinements in a successor top-of-the-line machine, the Nakamichi 1000ZXL. Prices pushed upward again, with this machine being $3,800 at the time. The updated 700ZXL was a mere $3,000. Low-end cassette decks sold new for under $200, with the Nakamichi name on them. This time period stands as the pinnacle for cassette recorders, as from that time onwards digital recording methods began to make inroads."
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2006 at 06:55
^ so what the article is essentially saying is that they made a tape deck which made reel-to-reel tape recorders obsolete. But it's still a tape deck, which means: lo-fi in terms of reliability, durability, copying etc.. But of course back in 1973 there were no alternatives.

and: still the gold had nothing to do with it.Wink


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 14 2006 at 06:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2006 at 15:17
Back in the second half of the 1960s we used to have a miniature portable record player at home that was even smaller than the Sound Burger (see first three photos below) released in later years (in the 1980s, I believe). It was a clamshell design but opened differently to the Sound Burger, enabling it to be more compact. It looked more like the AIWA micro portable record player shown in last three photos below. Now these record players were 'lo-fi'. Sounded OK, though.


Sound Burger promo:


Sound Burger showing storage position of the arm, and the folding lid.


Sound Burger playing an LP:


AIWA micro-portable playing a single:


AIWA micro-portable playing an LP:


AIWA micro-portable compared to an LP:



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 04:58
Wow... I want a Sound Burger so bad! Not that I expect the audio quality to be very good, but it would be an awesome thing to have...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:15
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Wikipedia:

"In 1973 Nakamichi created stereo cassette decks with such high quality that eventually made reel-to-reel tape recorders obsolete for consumers.
 
 
As CD did vinyl!!
 
Although the Nakamichi machines were arguably the best in their field the cassette was never more than the MP3 of its era; convenient, portable but definitely not hi-fi.
 
Good cassette decks made the hassle of reel to reel no longer necessary for home recording but anyone interested in reliable sound quality still used reel to reel. 


Edited by Heavyfreight - October 16 2006 at 05:16
When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:35
You don't know what you say. Big Nakas explode all the Cd sources you have heard. It goes at 30khz and is far more dynamic!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:42
^ *You* don't know what you're saying - CD is vastly superior in dynamics (undisputable fact), and 30khz ... well, if you believe in astrology you might also believe that the human ear can hear such high frequencies. But I'm sure that it cannot, and that the tape decks could *not* reproduce such frequencies reliably. Why should they - there are no sources which contain these frequencies!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:46
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

Wow... I want a Sound Burger so bad! Not that I expect the audio quality to be very good, but it would be an awesome thing to have...


You can have one... there's one for sale on eBay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUND-BURGER-PORTABLE-TURNTABLE_W0QQitemZ280037010581QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3281QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A brand new Sound Burger sold on eBay yesterday - it was still wrapped in its original plastic bag. Not cheap, though. The last time I looked the price was $250.

Several manufacturers made micro-portable record players; here's another model, this one from 1961:



The Wondergram Record Player, weighing in at less than 2 lbs. Transistorised, and ran on 1.5 V batteries.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 05:52
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ *You* don't know what you're saying - CD is vastly superior in dynamics (undisputable fact), and 30khz ... well, if you believe in astrology you might also believe that the human ear can hear such high frequencies. But I'm sure that it cannot, and that the tape decks could *not* reproduce such frequencies reliably. Why should they - there are no sources which contain these frequencies!

    

You're a dwarf in music and you have never heard nothing.
Numeric can't reproduce ANY frequency correctly because of the gaps and it even adds supersonic noise.

So, one time for all, please SHUT UP!!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 06:12
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ *You* don't know what you're saying - CD is vastly superior in dynamics (undisputable fact), and 30khz ... well, if you believe in astrology you might also believe that the human ear can hear such high frequencies. But I'm sure that it cannot, and that the tape decks could *not* reproduce such frequencies reliably. Why should they - there are no sources which contain these frequencies!

    

You're a dwarf in music and you have never heard nothing.



I have heard a lot and in fact I can play a lot - I played in a band and I even recorded an album. My ears are working perfectly fine, and I can hear all the subtleties that trained ears are supposed to hear.

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


Numeric can't reproduce ANY frequency correctly because of the gaps and it even adds supersonic noise.



LOL

you didn't even bother to read the article which heavyfreight added to his post - it explains in detail why even vinyl has problems like quantisation. And the supersonic noise - it is filtered out and converted to white noise, again much like what happens when playing vinyls (thermic/electro-mechanic effects).

Resistance is really futile here ... you're only making a fool of yourself with your childish ignorance of facts. You might as well say that the sky is green!

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



So, one time for all, please SHUT UP!!!!!


Sorry, but I will continue to post my opinion here - as you will too.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 16 2006 at 06:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 06:52
Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

A brand new Sound Burger sold on eBay yesterday - it was still wrapped in its original plastic bag. Not cheap, though. The last time I looked the price was $250.
 
If ancient but working grammophones cost ca. 40€, I wouldn't buy such fragile plastic player with more than 50$ absolute, and it would be better to function properly. I believe that such Sound Burgers were manufactured in smaller quantities. Neat looking device though, but some people try to ask unbeliable prices of anything in these web auctions. It's ofcourse possible, that at customer who has millions of dollars money, spots such and wants it immetiadly, without caring about the cost.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 06:55
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...and 30khz ... well, if you believe in astrology you might also believe that the human ear can hear such high frequencies. But I'm sure that it cannot, and that the tape decks could *not* reproduce such frequencies reliably.
 
I heard somewhere, that there would be some kind of "joke" in the end of some BEATLES album, that being a high pitched volume beyond human ears, but which some animals like dogs could hear. I'm not sure if this true. I'm a bit deaf and I don't often even hear proprely what people speak! Tongue "WHAT!" LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:27
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...you're only making a fool of yourself with your childish ignorance of facts. You might as well say that the sky is green.


Ah yes - but with modern digital manipulation of images, the sky can be green; in the old days, you had to depend on unreliable & illegal chemical stimuli to see a green sky...



Sorry - different argument for a different thread - pray continue.
    

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:34
I don't care about your smoky THEORIES. The fact that your play 3 notes of NOISE with a bunch of friends doesn't mean nothing, if it's in the same vein that the craps you add to the site. You should not be here on this adult site, but rather on a teenage forum for "metal heads".

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 07:56
Please, gentelmen. I think this thread is running off topic and towards hostilities.  
 
Originally posted by Heavyfreight Heavyfreight wrote:

I expect that the producer puts far too much compression and low frequency and high frequency emphasis on to make them sound louder.  You know how rock musicians like everything turned to 11.  It might work ok with your instrument amp but never with the PA or mixing desk.
 
As I recorded tracks from my CREAM "Farewell concert 1968" DVD, and also from their BBC sessions to make a compilation to my car, the soundwaves did't have curves, but the whole thing was a solid bar filling all frequence levels. I think that this made the CD to sound very violent, as I listen it with max vol in my car it realy locks my ears, so I can't hear anything for awhile after leaving the car. Tongue There's also lots of echo in the live recording form the Albert Hall acoustics, I believe.
 
We have reached bit similar sound in our rehearshal room, by putting the record level of our Telefunken magnetofone as too high, and we have taken off the softening acoustic elements from the wall. We have also thought of making a recording in the staircase to get big echoes!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 08:29
Not sure if I'm right here but I always found that descent into insults and threats indicated that someone was losing the arguement.Shocked
When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 08:36
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

I don't care about your smoky THEORIES. The fact that your play 3 notes of NOISE with a bunch of friends doesn't mean nothing, if it's in the same vein that the craps you add to the site. You should not be here on this adult site, but rather on a teenage forum for "metal heads".



LOL A couple of things:

  1. You're confusing scientific fact with theory.
  2. There's nothing "smoky" about these facts - rather the reverse.Wink
  3. "3 notes" ... thanks for confirming that you don't know much about music theory or notation to start with ... the correct term is "3 chords".Smile
  4. We had a proper home studio which back then (1993) cost more than 12,000 EUR, with state of the art equipment (expensive microphones, 24 channel Soundcraft mixer, ALESIS ADAT recorder, Tannoy monitor speakers etc. ).
  5. Let's not return to the "who added what" debate ...Wink
  6. Do you even know how old I am? I'm 10 years older than philippe for example ... go figure.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2006 at 11:14
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

I don't care about your smoky THEORIES. The fact that your play 3 notes of NOISE with a bunch of friends doesn't mean nothing, if it's in the same vein that the craps you add to the site. You should not be here on this adult site, but rather on a teenage forum for "metal heads".

 
Any more of that type of thing Oliver and you can expect to hear from me. Please keep it civil and friendly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 20:36
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ *You* don't know what you're saying - CD is vastly superior in dynamics (undisputable fact), and 30khz ... well, if you believe in astrology you might also believe that the human ear can hear such high frequencies. But I'm sure that it cannot, and that the tape decks could *not* reproduce such frequencies reliably. Why should they - there are no sources which contain these frequencies!
 
I don't know how a cassette could possibly replay at 30khz.
 
I have a half inch 8 track that records at 15 IPS and still can only get to about 21khz.
 
That being said, you're wrong. In the 70's the worlds best 2" 30 ips machines could capture frequencies well into 48khz. Caputring frequencies that high is absolutely essential in creating something known as the hypersonic effect, which adds much missing detail and prestine quality which is missing from today's technology.
 
I'm NOT partial to analog machine JUST because it's 70's : keep in mind the very first compact disc as we know it was unveiled in 1979 - obivously a technology that had been in the works for many years prior.
 
CD's fail. Analog wins. That's all there is to it.
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2006 at 20:42
I appreciate Lo - fi as music genre. Low Barlow and the bunch. Sky presents different colour to different species. I like concepts behind art forms, since art is made out of that. Format, unless it is really really cheap, I don't care much about.
    

Edited by cuncuna - October 19 2006 at 20:51
¡Beware of the Bee!
   
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