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WaywardSon 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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 Topic: David Bowie (Genre Poll)
Posted: October 01 2006 at 20:24 |
Curious as to where everyone thinks he fits in, so I decided to do a genre poll. There are lots of Bowie threads but no polls.
As for me, I think his inclusion in PA is long overdue.
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Australian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3278
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 02:53 |
he dosen't fit anywhere here.
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Dragon Phoenix
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1475
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 03:43 |
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Prog related. But apparently the powers that be already made up their mind that he will not be included.
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Blog this:
http://artrock2006.blogspot.com
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 09:12 |
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You know, I kind of get the feeling that Bowie gets included with an entire group of artists that get no consideration. Bowie was one of the fathers of New Wave (or post-punk, whatever you want to call it), and those artists get snubbed completely. Talk Talk is the only one that slipped by. There seems to be a stigma attached to that kind of music. That's why there is no talk about The Cure, Depeche Mode, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Love and Rockets, etc. Now I am not saying these bands should be included, but they aren't even discussed (the one that should be seriously considered is Flaming Lips).
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 09:17 |
I can think of a lot of his songs that are actually 100% Prog
"Wild Eyed Doy from Freecloud" off Space Oddity (the whole album has strong progressive elements)
The album "The Man who sold the world"
The album "Hunky Dory"
The album "Low" and "Heroes"
The Soundtrack to "Christiane F"
The newest album "Reality" also has strong prog elements.
Sorry, but not including him in (at least Prog Related) is absurd IMHO.
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition
Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 09:30 |
IMO, he's a prime example of a progressive artist that isn't a 'prog' artist. I'm a big fan, always have been, but I've never even thought for a second he's a huge omission from the site. I guess the Berlin trilogy and parts of Diamond Dogs have prog elements but a few bits here and there don't equate to a prog artist, imo. I'd say he doesn't fit here, personally.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Points: 24429
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 10:10 |
 bhikkhu wrote:
You know, I kind of get the feeling that Bowie gets included with an entire group of artists that get no consideration. Bowie was one of the fathers of New Wave (or post-punk, whatever you want to call it), and those artists get snubbed completely. Talk Talk is the only one that slipped by. There seems to be a stigma attached to that kind of music. That's why there is no talk about The Cure, Depeche Mode, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Love and Rockets, etc. Now I am not saying these bands should be included, but they aren't even discussed (the one that should be seriously considered is Flaming Lips). |
Frankie Goes to Hollywood are one the best-kept musical secrets of mine... I have bookmarked a video on YouTube of them playing "Welcome to the Pleasuredome" (a track I absolutely love) with Steve Howe on steel guitar! However, I'd like to add a new-wave band to your list: that is, Talking Heads - a band that has more than one prog connection (the best-known being Adrian Belew's collaboration with them), and which I have seen mentioned more than once on Italian prog websites.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 10:33 |
bhikkhu wrote:
You know, I kind of get the feeling that Bowie gets included with an entire group of artists that get no consideration. Bowie was one of the fathers of New Wave (or post-punk, whatever you want to call it), and those artists get snubbed completely. Talk Talk is the only one that slipped by. There seems to be a stigma attached to that kind of music. That's why there is no talk about The Cure, Depeche Mode, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Love and Rockets, etc. Now I am not saying these bands should be included, but they aren't even discussed (the one that should be seriously considered is Flaming Lips). |
I'd rather think of Kraftwerk as the major New Wave influence, but it's all the same.
Even if some of Bowie's works can be prog-related, it is best he is not entered in the Archives even as prog-related. Because of him we may get also asks for Mott The Hoople, Ian Hunter, Lou Reed Iggy Pop, Velvet Underground (thru Lou Reed) etc....
Too controversial and clearly out of focus of this site, imho.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 10:41 |
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Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved...
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John Gargo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 10:55 |
Is absence is pretty jarring, in my opinion...
1. His frequent collaboration with prog artists, such as Rick Wakeman, Brian Eno and Robert Fripp, particularly Eno where his involvement in those albums really merits an equal billing, in my opinion.
2. Prog elements/songs in early albums, such as Space Oddity, The Man Who Sold the World and Hunky Dory.
3. Full-blown concept albums in the form of Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane and Diamond Dogs, Outside... you COULD argue that non-prog artists have sometimes indulged in concept albums, but at least FOUR? I highly doubt it...
4. Pretty much every single website out there refers to him as Art-Rock and Prog-Related except for this one...
5. Scary Monsters, the album, is definately Art Rock, with experiments, genre-shifting, and a summary of all of his styles in the 70s. You could argue that everything he did afterwards is not really progressive (although certain albums have elements of prog, such as Outside), but then again how many artists here have cut-off points. You could make a case for every single one of his 70s albums being art-rock with the possible exception of Pinups (a cover album, doesn't really count) and Young Americans (R&B one-off which, when thought about in the right context, supports the idea of Bowie as progressing artist).
Simply put, the cliche of David Bowie as a musical cameleon is adequate, and the very fact that he was recording albums (prolifically) during the 70s, a decade where progressive music was at the forefront of pop culture, it is only fitting that his music soaks up a lot of this type of music.
But say you want to make the argument of Bowie as a soulless replicant of music, and therefore he's not TRULY prog because he's only copying what's popular... Fair enough, except that punk music hit the scene in the late 70s... that was when Bowie as recording his most PROGRESSIVE albums! That, to me, is a testament to his contribution to progressive rock... that when everyone else was attempting to go "back to the basics," Bowie was into his Berlin-trilogy and, even after he finished with Eno, went on to record another prog album in Scary Monsters.
His absence to the archives is a big mistake, prog traditionalists and snobs be damned.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 11:12 |
Great post John Gargo! ![[=D>]](https://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif)
Even Teaflax (a hardcore prog purist) would agree.
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Open-Mind
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1800
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:17 |
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Prog Related
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"I'm on a roll, I'm on a roll this time, I feel my luck could change.. "
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:26 |
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More prog than Iron Maiden. Better artist also.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 4318
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:29 |
Tony R wrote:
Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved... |
Yes. Iron Maiden, for example, has been included. The reason that leads to believe that Iron Maiden is a prog act will remain unknown to me, even if explained.
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 13:43 |
Tony R wrote:
Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved... |
I agree about the geniune prog bands, it´s just that we seem to be having the same topics in the Proto Prog/Related Lounge, just talking about Queen and Purple.
It would be great to include some more, especially those artists who have strong prog elements.
I would actually consider Bowie, almost as progressive as Rush(of all the cheek and nerve  )
Edited by WaywardSon - October 02 2006 at 13:43
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akin
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 976
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:42 |
cuncuna wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Why oh why?
There are probably 300 genuine Prog Bands that need adding to the Archives.Many have been approved... |
Yes. Iron Maiden, for example, has been included. The reason that
leads to believe that Iron Maiden is a prog act will remain unknown to
me, even if explained.
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Thinking this way you will never find logic in inclusion here. It
is not that Iron Maiden is prog. It is probably less prog
related than Bowie, but as the people admins prefered Maiden to be
added this time (with a discussion about the pros and cons of them
being added),
they rushed their inclusion when they felt it was useful to the site.
If they feel the same about Bowie they will include them. Now it seems
it is more important to add more genuine prog bands and some
prog-related than to add lots of prog-related just because of one
addition.
Edited by akin - October 07 2006 at 15:23
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 17:54 |
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I think he fits in Art Rock, next to his friend Fripp
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:04 |
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Prog-Related.
However, he has the elements of what I'd call classic "Art Rock", that being proggy, but poppy music of high quality, which is what I consider to be Art Rock.
He also has avant-garde leanings as well.
Raffaella: I'd agree with Talking Heads being included.
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 23 2006
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 2537
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:16 |
Yes you are right when you say avante-garde leanings. That´s exactly what I wanted to say, just couldn´t find the word at the time.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: October 02 2006 at 18:34 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
bhikkhu wrote:
You know, I kind of get the feeling that Bowie gets included with an entire group of artists that get no consideration. Bowie was one of the fathers of New Wave (or post-punk, whatever you want to call it), and those artists get snubbed completely. Talk Talk is the only one that slipped by. There seems to be a stigma attached to that kind of music. That's why there is no talk about The Cure, Depeche Mode, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Love and Rockets, etc. Now I am not saying these bands should be included, but they aren't even discussed (the one that should be seriously considered is Flaming Lips). |
Frankie Goes to Hollywood are one the best-kept musical secrets of mine... I have bookmarked a video on YouTube of them playing "Welcome to the Pleasuredome" (a track I absolutely love) with Steve Howe on steel guitar! However, I'd like to add a new-wave band to your list: that is, Talking Heads - a band that has more than one prog connection (the best-known being Adrian Belew's collaboration with them), and which I have seen mentioned more than once on Italian prog websites. |
I knew I was forgetting someone. 
I guess that was covered in the etc.
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David Bowie (Genre Poll)
