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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 7991
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:58 |
Now, I would definitely agree... but would people who only care about their image?
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:57 |
What are women?
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Cygnus X-2
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 24 2004
Location: Bucketheadland
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Points: 21342
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:53 |
Chameleon wrote:
Now, what's going to make them seem more popular - Today's #1 hits about sex, violence and assault, or a 20 minute ode to The Lord of the Rings? |
The 20 minute ode to LotR of course.
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Bastille Dude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 906
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:49 |
I am very fortunate that my wife not only tolerates most of my music, but actually likes some of it. Because of me she loves Pink Floyd, Rush, Yes, Marillion, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Gentle Giant.
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DEATH TO FALSE PROG!
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yesfan88
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 357
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 23:37 |
Being a woman, it has frequently perplexed me that most women don't like prog. I really don't understand why, especially because some prog sounds very feminine. Yes and Renaissance are my two favorite bands, but they are also favorites of my best friend who is male, and who got me into prog in the first place.
I have noticed that it doesn't seem to be a gender thing so much as nobody my age is willing to listen to complicated music, or indeed, read a book.
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 22:55 |
Well, let's see if Dr. Cham can solve this one.
Well, whereas many years ago, prog was what was hip. It was, generally, pretty cool to like it. Men and women both liked it (My mother's seen Yes and Genesis, and was a King Crimson fan). Now, in the modern world, prog is quite an underground genre, and due to its technical nature, frowned upon, because people have been dumbed down by crappy mainstream pop-punk/emo/rap... etc. Now, it's also true that girls have gotten...well, skankier these days, for a lack of a better term. No, not all, but you should see my high school. Generally, these girls want to be cool and get boyfriends, and since most teenage boys are unbelievably shallow, they don't want to be nerdy or uncool. Now, what's going to make them seem more popular - Today's #1 hits about sex, violence and assault, or a 20 minute ode to The Lord of the Rings?
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mickstafa
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:53 |
Arrrghus wrote:
For example, my grandmother listened to jazz (Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington) in the 30s and 40s. |
I'm no Jazz expert (I'm just now getting into Weather report, Mahavishnu and Miles Davis) but from what I hear Jazz seems like a great mixture for technical precision (men) and music you can tap your foot to/dance to (women). Note these are generalizations, not sexist remarks!!!
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Arrrghus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 21 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 5296
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:51 |
mickstafa wrote:
Many women just don't listen to
highly technical music for that sake alone like we do.
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Most of the time, that is typical. However, I know many women musicians who listen to classical music (some of which can be much more challenging than prog). The biggest problem is the brainwashing: before music became corporate-driven, women listened to pretty much the same as men. For example, my grandmother listened to jazz (Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington) in the 30s and 40s.
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mickstafa
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:50 |
YYZed wrote:
Whoever said that prog appeals to the "dorky" side of men I think hit it on the head.
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That was me
YYZed wrote:
In the way that men are naturally more interested in mechanics, technology and the like, I think they tend to be attracted to technically superior music. I think it is much easier for men to listen to complex music and be grabbed by it, if only for that technicallity. Of course, just as there are exceptions to everything we say about the tendencies and personalities of men and women, there are women who enjoy prog. Good for them.
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Yep. I can't speak for everyone, but the love (obsession?) for prog is similar kind of feeling I have for all my other typical guy (and somewhat dorky) passions.
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Reverie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 14 2005
Location: Australia
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Points: 626
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 21:27 |
I don't think men are naturally interested in mechanics etc. I think it's more of a case of that's how guys are raised. That's the mould, if you see what i mean. It's just been that guys are brought into the world expecting to be hands on kind of people, and women caring and empathic. Maybe that's what you meant though. Thankfully i think this is deteriorating more and more as time progresses. But you may have a point YYZed. It's an interesting idea.
Well anyway, i used to be a complete metal head, and i still enjoy heavy metal, and am in a heavy metal band. And i can safely say that there are PLENTY of females who like metal. Hell, the bassist in my band is a chick, and we have an interested vocalist who is a chick (yeah, a chick death metal singer, and she does it very well).
I was at a Dark Tranquillity (melodic death metal) gig last night, and while males may have made up the percentages, there were a vast array of females as well.
So that kind of supports that those moulds are expanding i think, and that women don't just listen to dance music and love ballads at all. I know metal is not (necessarily) prog, but the principle is the same.
Edited by Reverie - September 19 2006 at 21:27
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YYZed
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 282
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 19:48 |
Whoever said that prog appeals to the "dorky" side of men I think hit it on the head.
In the way that men are naturally more interested in mechanics, technology and the like, I think they tend to be attracted to technically superior music. I think it is much easier for men to listen to complex music and be grabbed by it, if only for that technicallity. Of course, just as there are exceptions to everything we say about the tendencies and personalities of men and women, there are women who enjoy prog. Good for them.
It's prog. Hooray prog!
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:52 |
Seriously though, statistically, aren't men more likely to be serious music fans, in whatever genre, than women? (Look around you in a record or hi fidelity store.)
I imagine, as was said above, that the ample beauty to be found in (real) prog helps draw some ladies, too.
It was at first the "weirdness" and power that attracted me to prog, BTW, but the beauty that got me really hooked -- I love those acoustic passages in old Genesis & PFM, etc! Long live my "sensitive" side!
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Peter
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Joined: January 31 2004
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:41 |
Oh! Why do women like PROG....
They like it because of its cute name, its impressive length, and because Hugues Chantraine likes it, of course!
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
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Points: 5109
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:41 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
I've noticed that, in the past few days, quite a few fellow women have joined the PA forum - hopefully to stay for a while and not just disappear into thin air immediately afterwards. In the past, there have been several threads and polls about why women can't get into prog, some of them descending into gratuitous, sexist stereotypes about women being only interested in 'mating' music like all kinds of dance music. I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to the opposite situation, i.e. women like me and others here who do like prog, and have for some time. I, for instance, have never been able to stand either dance music or, even worse, traditional 'female' music such as romantic pop songs, and have been into classic rock, prog and even metal for as long as I can remember. I suppose all the women who frequent these forums have a similar story to tell. Of course, guys are welcome to come here and discuss their own experiences with prog-loving ladies. So, what do you think makes a woman go for such an 'unwomanly' genre as prog, instead of piling up the Celine Dion or Barry White CDs?
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And what, pray tell, is wrong with Barry White?!!
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eugene
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 2703
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:38 |
I know some women who like prog, and can't understand why the should not.
On the other hand none of the women I know participates in any internet forums.
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carefulwiththataxe
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Danielle
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 17:30 |
I never realized that females usually stay away from prog, but then again, I don't talk to many girls, so I wouldn't know. Personally, I started listening to prog because I got sick of death metal and black metal (which is much less feminine than prog) because I wanted something more melodic and listenable. I used to be a HUGE Opeth fan, so that opened the door for me, leading me to discover more and more prog bands. Another reason that I love this genre is because I'm a musician of sorts, so I have the utmost respect for anyone who can create such masterpieces as most prog songs are.
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Hibou
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Joined: April 24 2004
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Points: 250
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:58 |
Ah, Ghost Rider, you’re fast becoming my new prog hero ! And with a thread like this, you’d think all female proggers would finally be coming out of the woodwork. But alas... So here I go.
First, let me say that I’m a 56-year old female (don’t ever say you’re too old for prog!). The way I see it is women’s brains are different from men’s, with possible repercussions on (among other things) our respective music appreciation. For the same reason you won’t find many females standing with their hands crossed behind their backs, staring at a construction site (althrough there are some), you don’t find too many females who enjoy highly technical music (again, there are some but they are a minority) - and prog provides plenty of this.
I, myself, don’t easily make concessions when it comes to melody contents: a piece can feature odd-time signatures and take many crazy twists & turns, but some harmony must come of it all to satisfy my female brain (that’s why I like mostly symphonic and neo prog). When music steers too far away from melody, I feel like I’m trying to connect with someone lacking basic human emotions. This doesn’t mean I like syrupy ballads, far from it: hip-hop, new age music and crooners absolutely bore me to death.
I’d say if you’re female, not only must you have an ear for music, but you must make music a priority in your life if you want to enjoy prog : turn the phone off the hook, don’t answer the door, “don’t talk to me for the next four hours while I strap my headphones on” sort of thing. Very few women are encouraged to endulge in such a “selfish” pastime, what with our family lives, raising the kids and all.
One day, surely, someone will find a satisfying explanation for this female lack of interest in prog. But something tells me it has to do with (1) the way our respective brains process musical information and (2) the socialogical context that discourages women from indulging in a hobby you mostly emjoy alone.
Sorry for raveling on so. I don’t write often but I just couldn’t let that wonderful thread pass without putting my two cents in. Keep on progging, ladies, and don’t ever let that proggy flame die inside .
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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!
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Soupykan
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 31 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 32
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:35 |
My girlfriend loves Pink Floyd, from Piper to The Wall, as well as Yes and Queen. She is one of the biggest Floyd fans I know.
My mother introduced me to both Genesis and Yes. Her sister is probably the biggest Yes fan I know. Her other sister is a Dead Head, but also found time to see Zappa on numerous occasions.
Honestly, I think that while prog may have a larger male fanbase, women can appreciate prog music just as much as men.
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She ruled the toads of the short forest
And every Newt in Idaho....
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:20 |
Maybe your girlfriend is a gay man in a woman's body... what's that make you?
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 200
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 16:18 |
Heh, my girlfriend is quite a woman in her appearance and quite a male in every other way (except sexual preference)
many people would say I'm lucky, and maybe I am... but I'd say anyone's
lucky if they have a good relationship (as you seem to do with Amy)
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Go and listen to my music.
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31725
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