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el böthy 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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 Posted: September 19 2006 at 13:03 |
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I will take two examples of my two best girl friends
One is very much into art and lets say she is a bit out of the box, in the best of ways. She does like prog, some of it, most of what I have shown her she has liked. Her favorite prog album is Tales form topo...!!! Recently she became a fan of Ayreon, enjoys prog metal...but at the same time she loves dancing, electronic music and all the tipical girls stuff! Normally a not very focused person, but she almoust inmidiatly knows if there is something she doesnt like. Actually I went to see Nexus with this friend, and she said soemthing I would have not expected from a non exclusive prog listener "The vocals where ok, but I think this kind of band would not suffer the total lack of them" Interesting...
The other is very much the girl next door, she loves dancing I think more than anything... and of course does not know about prog and doenst want to know about it. Her music taste is awefull, with some exceptions...very few of course. This girl on the other hand is very focused and normally gets away with anything she puts her mind to it, even if its too hard. As you can see this girl has a more narrow taste, she pretty much only likes music where you can move your body to and wont listen to soemthing withour lyrics as Im sure she thinks the singer is the msot important part of a band. Not to be mean or anything, but this girl is probably much smarter than the previous one.
I dont know if this has helped...but I just wanted to show that it doesnt necesarly has to do with intelligents or how focused a woman is...I think when it comes to women, more than in men, it has to do with how much of an "artist" they are or how much they like that stuff!
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"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Online
Points: 20239
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 12:44 |
 sm sm wrote:
There's also an attitude that attracting more of the opposite gender would worsen the music.
E.g. Bon Jovi and Poison were considered "chick metal bands", which did worsen the music by turning metal into nothing but pop music with distortion
I'm sure attracting more men to female dominated music would be considered to worsen the music as well.
In reality, it was the perceivement by the music monguls of how to attract more of the opposite gender that worsened the music.
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Thing is that males are always coined as sexists and obsessed, but only women go to concerts of artists that they find cute (such as Bon Anchiove). And most of the males going to Anchiove concerts is to try to pick up chicks. ( maybe the rare unaccompanied women go to prog concert to pick up cute dudes and never return because there aren't any )
I have yet to meet a guy that went to a Britney Spears concert because he thought she was cute (and she bloody well is).
Most women go to crooner concert (such as Helmut Lotti) because not only does he sing correctly at best (and this is Belgian speaking) but also (and mostly) because he is "cute".
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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sm sm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 155
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 12:32 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
I've noticed that, in the past few days, quite a few fellow women have joined the PA forum - hopefully to stay for a while and not just disappear into thin air immediately afterwards. In the past, there have been several threads and polls about why women can't get into prog, some of them descending into gratuitous, sexist stereotypes about women being only interested in 'mating' music like all kinds of dance music. I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to the opposite situation, i.e. women like me and others here who do like prog, and have for some time. |
There are probably similar sexist stereotypes about men who can't get into dance music (because their too neandrathal, etc), except its also promoted through taxpayer assisted women's (read - Feminist) programs or venues that would not allow simialr sexism against women.
Chances are both sexism would also come equally from one's own gender, where if a man likes dance music, he would be labled emasculate by men, or if a woman likes prog, she would be labeled as butch by women
There's also an attitude that attracting more of the opposite gender would worsen the music.
E.g. Bon Jovi and Poison were considered "chick metal bands", which did worsen the music by turning metal into nothing but pop music with distortion
I'm sure attracting more men to female dominated music would be considered to worsen the music as well.
In reality, it was the perceivement by the music monguls of how to attract more of the opposite gender that worsened the music.
That said, women need to tell such people that they like prog ala Genesis in the Peter Gabriel or Collins/Hackett manner, and not in the "tonight, tonight" manner that the moguls would encourage prog to sound like in order to attact more women.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Online
Points: 20239
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 12:26 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
I've noticed that, in the past few days, quite a few fellow women have joined the PA forum - hopefully to stay for a while and not just disappear into thin air immediately afterwards. In the past, there have been several threads and polls about why women can't get into prog, some of them descending into gratuitous, sexist stereotypes about women being only interested in 'mating' music like all kinds of dance music. I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to the opposite situation, i.e. women like me and others here who do like prog, and have for some time.
I, for instance, have never been able to stand either dance music or, even worse, traditional 'female' music such as romantic pop songs, and have been into classic rock, prog and even metal for as long as I can remember. I suppose all the women who frequent these forums have a similar story to tell. Of course, guys are welcome to come here and discuss their own experiences with prog-loving ladies. So, what do you think makes a woman go for such an 'unwomanly' genre as prog, instead of piling up the Celine Dion or Barry White CDs? |
Well there goes my Gentlemen reputation  !!
Well it was only a reputation.
As a matter of fact, Raf took these words out of one of my posts. 
Well I am guilty of this kind of conclusion and as all clichés they are based on a solid and undeniable base . 
While I admit that my girlfriend and a few before (but I got them to know prog), they are mostly aware of prog because I told them it was called such. My girlfriend's fave prog groups would be Floyd and Moody Blues. But as soon as there is the slightest hint of jazz, dissonance or lack of obvious melody she (and countless of other women, but also a good amount of males) loses interests and actually will nag me until I change. And if I may say so, this is a recurring thing with most women I meet   . But overall if I choose the easier listening prog, I get no hassle from her, so I do not complain.
But let's face it , I have never seen a crowd of five or six women going to a Spock Beard or a Yes concert (or even Floyd for that matter) by themselves. When I look around in the audience this is usually minimum 80% male and the few women that are there are wives or girlfriends tagging along (usually they like a bit of prog). There is the exception that confirms the rule, but it is an exception and the rule is not that much a cliché.
BTW, I waited for women to post here and when I saw this was to be another almost-male-only thread, I dived. 
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 13 2006
Location: Londinium
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:45 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
I've noticed that, in the past few days, quite a few fellow women have joined the PA forum - hopefully to stay for a while and not just disappear into thin air immediately afterwards. In the past, there have been several threads and polls about why women can't get into prog, some of them descending into gratuitous, sexist stereotypes about women being only interested in 'mating' music like all kinds of dance music. I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to the opposite situation, i.e. women like me and others here who do like prog, and have for some time.
I, for instance, have never been able to stand either dance music or, even worse, traditional 'female' music such as romantic pop songs, and have been into classic rock, prog and even metal for as long as I can remember. I suppose all the women who frequent these forums have a similar story to tell. Of course, guys are welcome to come here and discuss their own experiences with prog-loving ladies. So, what do you think makes a woman go for such an 'unwomanly' genre as prog, instead of piling up the Celine Dion or Barry White CDs? |
....moi???
seriously folks......
it is very refreshing to have opinions on Prog and music in general from people of either sex, all ages, creeds and nationalities - the more the merrier! Actually as Prog is generally considered to be more beautiful, interesting and challenging than many other forms of rock and popular music (nothing to do with intelligence, i love it and i'm no intellectual by any means!), i would have thought there would be many more ladies interested in it, the same with classical music, i see many women at prog concerts (and classical music concerts) so i look forward to meeting them on PA.
Edited by mystic fred - September 19 2006 at 11:49
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:43 |
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I was introduced to Prog by one of my friends, who happens to be a woman.
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glass house
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 16 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 4986
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:36 |
Quote Dirk : Since appreciating prog takes some effort and focusing (for me that is) i wonder if a similar mechanism might be at work here, i'm not sure actually- end quote.
I was wondering what Karin thought of this?  .
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Arsillus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7374
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:36 |
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Maybe there are a lot more than we know, but they don't join internet forums dedicated to it. Or maybe they keep it under wraps for whatever risk or reason. They are too hard to understand.
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Dirk
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:27 |
Maybe a parallel with chess can be drawn? It's well known that there are much more male than female chessplayers, the reason that is usually given to explain this phenomenon is that men are more interested in focusing in depth on one specific topic (such as chess) than women who generally have a broader field of interest. Since appreciating prog takes some effort and focusing (for me that is) i wonder if a similar mechanism might be at work here, i'm not sure actually. At least my girlfriend is an exception to the rule, the first band she heard 30 years ago was Yes and she's been into prog ever since eventually convincing me by dragging me to concerts of Ayreon  .
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alias10mr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 218
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:22 |
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Great thread Ghost Rider, as usual your insights make us reflect...
My wife was not a fan of prog until we met and I've gotten her into both prog and jazz. I think that perhaps due to the lack of exposure in certain circles( i.e. circle of friends et al. ) many people don't get to listen to the richness of this music. Since prog and classical music are often identified as being related I don't think that music preference is a question of gendre or we would not see so many women at classical concerts. Also I tend to have a theory by which if , as a child, you were stimulated intellectually to diverse sights, sounds, foods,etc, as an adult you probably have a more open mind to experiment with the likes of what i've described.
Edited by alias10mr - September 19 2006 at 11:23
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mickstafa
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 236
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 11:16 |
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My wife isn't too keen on most of my prog.
While many women like prog, the audience is mostly male. The situation
is the same for computers and technology. One aspect of prog is
appreciation for the technical structure of the songs, things that
appeal to more "dorky" type guys. Many women just don't listen to
highly technical music for that sake alone like we do.
My wife has about as many CDs as I do; she just likes things a little more catchy and modern.
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Meddler
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 29 2005
Location: Massillon
Status: Offline
Points: 881
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:38 |
A lot of the girls i know are into (or at least like some) modern prog, but old stuff doesn't work. But I mostly listen to 00's prog anyway.  This one girl I know was listening to TMV and started giggiling saying Cedric's voice her feel all happy inside.  
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[IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i165/amorfous/astro-1.jpg">
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:34 |
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I never looked at Prog as some genre specifically for men. There are as much intelligent females as there are men, and while I wouldn't say Prog is some kind of an equivalent to music for intellectuals(as there have been numerous examples proving the opposite, and there are intellectual people who avoided or never got into prog)it is definitely a sign of individualism. I don't have much to say on the subject as I feel uncomofortable and awkward finding at least one reason why women wouldn't like a type of music for the same reason men do.
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sig
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:33 |
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I permanently fail to understand the fact that the percentage of men liking Prog is higher than that of women. Personally, I just don't see the difference between men and women in this aspect.
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Proteus
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 12 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 36
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:25 |
My wife likes prog, er, I think. Although she is not what I'd call a conneseur (sp?). She really gets into classic prog, but everytime I bring home other kinds of bacon, she refuses to eat it. While I'm willing to explore and dive into obscurity, she's not.
But she did attend ProgDay with me and seemed to like it. As for why there is an obvious discrepancy between the sexes regarding attendance and apparent interest, I'm stumped. Maybe because most of the artists are white males?
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-P
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: September 19 2006 at 10:04 |
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I've noticed that, in the past few days, quite a few fellow women have joined the PA forum - hopefully to stay for a while and not just disappear into thin air immediately afterwards. In the past, there have been several threads and polls about why women can't get into prog, some of them descending into gratuitous, sexist stereotypes about women being only interested in 'mating' music like all kinds of dance music. I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to the opposite situation, i.e. women like me and others here who do like prog, and have for some time.
I, for instance, have never been able to stand either dance music or, even worse, traditional 'female' music such as romantic pop songs, and have been into classic rock, prog and even metal for as long as I can remember. I suppose all the women who frequent these forums have a similar story to tell. Of course, guys are welcome to come here and discuss their own experiences with prog-loving ladies. So, what do you think makes a woman go for such an 'unwomanly' genre as prog, instead of piling up the Celine Dion or Barry White CDs?
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