Should Iron Maiden be classified as Prog-

Eetu Pellonpää wrote: toolis wrote: we mustn't confuse tech metal with prog metal... My Dying Bride had long tracks cause they are a doom metal band not proggy at all... bands like Sepultura or Coroner and Autopsy are/were tech thrash/death, not prog metal...   I agree your categorizations, and I'm sure you know about the metal stuff more than me, but the features mentioned here (long tracks, unconventional rhtyhms) are still the same to which many people point when claiming some bands as progressive, won't you agree?   I think it's about violently pushing the barriers of theoretical fences, which create territories for conceptual entities. "This is PROG!" One could also claim that all jazz influenced prog rock which are here labelled as jazz rock / fusion, is not prog at all, but they are jazz!

Good point.

Al di Meola for instance is more jazz than he is prog. And there are much more of these artists in PA.

OK, apology accepted... However, next time you'd better use emoticons if you want to make your meaning clearer! They've been invented for such purposes, as written language can't convey the same meanings as spoken language does, and as such it can lead to misunderstandings.

Eetu Pellonpää wrote: MattiR wrote: Maybe all of metal bands are "prog". All black metal, all death metal[IMG]alt=LOL src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif" align=absMiddle> No need to laugh at it, one can find many "progressive elements" from many death metal bands: Symphonic passages, long compositions done from several different parts, unconventional rhtyhms, etc. MY DYING BRIDE is a good example of a such band, but there are many more, SEPULTURA's "Arise" has these longer tracks with different parts, and even AUTOPSY's "Mental Funeral" has some very wild changes in it's songs. And as psychedelia is one feature of the prog genre, these death metal acts hold of a psychedelic death trip so severe, that most of the old hippies just can't take it.   I think that many progressive elements live in the metal scene, but it's still not wise to claim 'em prog. Many elements of Brittish society may still live in America, but you can't claim Florida as a part of England from that basis. Why not go ask the bands them selves, are you prog or not in their opinion? DREAM THEATER have flagged themselves that they want to be seen as a part of prog movement. But though many bands have these tendencies, one can't put 'em in the fence where they don't want to be.   Instead of a result of a technical musical analysis, prog is (to me) a part of a scene, that's improvisational, jazzy and artistic European rock of late 60's and early 70's. The influences of this trend lives in the music of many contemporary artists, but the prog flag should raise only to detect these influences, but not to label them instantly as a part of the genre. "Don't fence 'em in!" [IMG]height=17 alt=Tongue src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>   Sean Trane wrote: Paul DiAnno had a much better voice than Bruce Bruce (Dickinson's real name)   Agreed! (a rare insight [IMG]style="WIDTH: 15px; HEIGHT: 15px" height=17 alt=Clap src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif" width=18 align=absMiddle>) Though I don't listen to them often I have only these two first albums, as they don't have that power metal feeling on 'em, which I personally don't like.

    

we mustn't confuse tech metal with prog metal... My Dying Bride had long tracks cause they are a doom metal band not proggy at all... bands like Sepultura or Coroner and Autopsy are/were tech thrash/death, not prog metal...

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I believe they are more than just Prog Related, aSeventh Son of a Seventh Son is far enough to include them, for God's sake, The Beatles never did any pure Prog but they were influential, Iron Maide is probably the most influential band for Prog Metal. If it wasonly for Ryme of the Ancient Mariner, they woud deserve to be here, but they also have a whole bunch of Prog tracks.

I don't think that "Ryme..." is particularly proggy - and both Judas Priest and Metallica are at least equally influential on Prog Metal.

Both bands also have at least as many Prog tracks as Iron Maiden - Metallica more so.
    

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: I believe they are more than just Prog Related, aSeventh Son of a Seventh Son is far enough to include them, for God's sake, The Beatles never did any pure Prog but they were influential, Iron Maide is probably the most influential band for Prog Metal.   If it wasonly for Ryme of the Ancient Mariner, they woud deserve to be here, but they also have a whole bunch of Prog tracks.   But I'm not a Prog Metal Team Member neither i have premenstrual syndrome.     Iván

This has been discussed so many times, and not sure how much Prog they have in their music, good band, but as some say they have their moments, so don't know 100%

toolis wrote: do you, guys, really believe that Maiden are prog or do you just want to see your fav teen band in the PA so that you can review their LPs, give them all 5 stars and see them climb up the top100?

I find such remarks offensive, both on my own behalf and on that of the people who are supporting IM's induction into PA. I am a Rush fan, but if you look at my reviews, I gave their albums 3 stars more often than 5 - and I object to your using the expression "fav teen band". No one is talking about Back Street Boys or the Spice Girls here, and I don't see any of the people who have been posting in this thread wanting IM in PA in order to see their albums climb up the Top 100. I sure couldn't care less.

As to believing IM are prog, I think you've been a member of PA long enough to see that the definition is hazy to say the least, and that most people won't agree on what constitutes 'prog'. So, there are people who consider Maiden prog, others who don't - as there are those who think 'Close to the Edge' is overrated, and those who consider it a masterpiece.

In any case, I think you (and anybody else) can and should express the same concepts in a way that doesn't sound as unpleasant as the one you used above.

BiGi wrote: Joren wrote: Hmm interesting. When a few days ago I heard a few songs off "A Matter Of Life And Death" I was bored, and decided to stop listening. But now I just finished listening to "Dance Of Death", which I never thought was great (I always preferred Brave New World) - but now I like it for the first time. Moreover, it has some proggy moments... I think I'll give "A Matter Of Life And Death" another try one of these days. Friends...try the tracklist I published some post ago...

Iron Maiden was once my favourite band and I have all their studio albums (except the newest one), so I'd say I know them pretty well. I also admitted they have a bit of a prog flavour sometimes.

Joren wrote: BiGi wrote: Same considerations apply to Metallica: where's the big difference between them and, say, Tool? And they use plenty of complex time signatures... Actually, I'd be surprised to find more than a few similarities between Metallica and Tool. Probably all metal bands after Metallica are influenced by them to some extent, but Tool and Metallica are almost worlds apart, if you ask me.

Well, I thik it's the overall sonority...in my opinion they sound rather alike...
To be honest, however, I have to say that Metallica are definitely more varied as regards song composition...

Trickster F. wrote: Joren wrote: Trickster F. wrote: Joren wrote: Trickster F. wrote: Mercyful Fate are in no way Prog Metal, and the fact whether or not they are Prog-Related is a different question, and perhaps one difficult to answer. Proto-Prog-Metal?   I don't like the category "Proto-Prog-Metal", speaking honestly. Many bands who are considered that, surely influenced a great variety of metal genres, prog-metal included, but no matter how their influence is undeniable and can not be overlooked, they are very often only remotely close to the sound of Prog. Complexity, unusual time signatures, long songs, keyboards and above average technique are all traits often associated with prog, but each one separately and often even few at once doeth not a prog band maketh. O well, they just sound proggy to me... but what do I know, I'm not a PMS.   You mean you are not a Pre-Menstrual Stress?

Correct.

And I'm not a Prog Metal Specialist either.