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spacecraft 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 04 2006
Location: Scotland
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Points: 184
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 Posted: July 25 2006 at 14:39 |
The answer is NO. They have not done enough for prog music to warrent in the premier league of prog.
And, influencing prog metal, should be the nail in their coffin.
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Liquid Len
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 247
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:36 |
 chopper wrote:
Liquid Len wrote:
OK.
Side long epics, multi parts, unusual time signatures.
I give you Extreme, Three Sides to Every Story, Prog?
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Don't know, never heard the song. It's possible that this song is prog in itself, but it would have to be representative of the majority of their output to make them a prog band. |
More Rush Albums post Hemispheres than pre, therefore the majority of their output isn't Prog.
So Rush (who used to have some Prog tendencies) are not (based on the majority of their output) Prog
Just to emphasise I LOVE Rush and have TEN of their albums all good some excellent.
BUT THEY AIN'T PROG
Edited by Liquid Len - July 25 2006 at 13:42
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Can you tell me where my country lies?
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Aaron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 395
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 13:17 |
Liquid Len wrote:
OK.
Side long epics, multi parts, unusual time sigantures.
I give you Extreme, Three Sides to Every Story, Prog?
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not to get off track, because i know how important it is that you guys figure out if Rush has what it takes to be super prog goup
BUT, Extreme is a great band, and probably more progressive than Rush was at the time, just a guess
Pornograffiti and Three Sides are greats albums (both have prog tendencies), Nuno should be ranked among the great shredders, no diggity
Aaron
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 12:33 |
I have asked Easy Livin to warn Aaron because of his agressive childish behaviour (not only in this thread) and I would like to ask all visitors of this thread "don't react no longer on his reactions" because these are not meant serious, thanks in advance!
And now for something completely different  ...
About the Rush compositions: in the era 77-88, especially between A Farewell To Kings and Moving Pictures, Rush made many longer compositions featuring lots of shifting moods, great dynamics (surprising breaks, mellow and heavy parts and acoustic - and electric movements), tasteful ingredients (Moog Taurus bass pedals, Moog - and Oberhem synthesizers, assorted percussion) and excellent soli. These elements made listening to Rush to a very exciting experience  !
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Aaron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 395
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:59 |
Philéas wrote:
Stop the darned flaming now! 
None of us want this topic to turn into a flame war, so please, avoid the personal insults.
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hahaha, chill out dude, i have all of those above listed qualities, except that i have never been to a euro board game convention
my thoughts on rush besides sucking are as follows
that weren't part of the influential groundbreaking classic era, their major influences can be heard in prog metal, which gets enough criticism as it is
also, i don't think their sound if very colorful, blame it on only 3 members or blame it on bad song writing, take your pick, but probably because of bad song writing, because ELP could write colorful songs despite being so pompous
i used to like rush, i can't think of the last time i listened to one of their albums, they are a bit of a snoozefest
"fly by night, ooohhh the mountain dew"
Aaron
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20032
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:46 |
Liquid Len wrote:
OK.
Side long epics, multi parts, unusual time sigantures.
I give you Extreme, Three Sides to Every Story, Prog?
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Don't know, never heard the song. It's possible that this song is prog in itself, but it would have to be representative of the majority of their output to make them a prog band.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 11:28 |
Stop the darned flaming now! 
None of us want this topic to turn into a flame war, so please, avoid the personal insults.
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Aaron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 395
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:59 |
it's because of you Rush fans that still live at your parents house, play Dungeons and Dragons, go to euro board gaming conventions to play tournaments of Puerto Rico and Transamerica, and can't get a girlfriend, that us normal Prog Rock fans have to put up with the stereotype of progheads being dorks that like all that fruity sh*t
Aaron
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:48 |
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Well, my point is, the discussion won't lead anywhere. At least that's
what my experience of discussing Rush with people who don't like them
tells me.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 10:04 |
Does it really matter Phileas? Of course there are more burning musical questions and there are more important things in life to spend time on but .. yes, it matters if you like to discuss this kind of questions, it's part of the existence of The Forum, looking at the many, often interesting reactions I am glad I have started it  ! And I have no problem at all with some negative and even childish reactions, that's also part of setting up a thread. And although I am a huge fan of Rush, I can imagine that progheads are not pleased with the Rush sound, personally I don't like prog metal, Canterbury, jazz and experimental prog, I simply cannot listen to it as progheads cannot bear the distinctive, very dynamic and captivating 77-86 Rush sound !
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:45 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
About the 'super prog category', I created this
term in order to point at the seminal Seventies symphonic rock
dinosaurs Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, ELP and Pink Floyd as the main
influential bands in the history, in my opinion these bands are
unsurpassed looking at their serie of great and pivotal albums, their
compositional skills and the level of the musicians. My question in
this thread is or Rush belongs in that category? |
My question is, does it really matter?
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Single Coil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 301
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:42 |
I say Yes, they are a prog super-group.
If you take their most commercial album from the 80's, say Power Windows or Hold Your Fire... it is still far less of a cop-out and sell-out than 90125, Love Beach, Abacab, etc. I personally don't believe Rush ever had much of a "low". They have been pretty c onsistent.
They have been very influential, if you remember who they influenced. Prog metal bands owe alot to Rush, where the neo prog bands do not.
They are good live. Nice long sets and obvious ability.
There is an overlying theme in their music. I guess that's due to the lyrics. But even when the music doesn't sound that proggy, there is still a complex theme that runs through all of their music. There is an arc of progress that only long time fans would notice... but it's there, and it shows that they have a long term plan to put out ideas.
Or I could be totally wrong !
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If it's worth playing, it's worth playing loud!
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Liquid Len
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 247
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 09:00 |
OK.
Side long epics, multi parts, unusual time sigantures.
I give you Extreme, Three Sides to Every Story, Prog?
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Can you tell me where my country lies?
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20032
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:21 |
Liquid Len wrote:
MajesterX wrote:
Liquid Len wrote:
I like Rush, I like them a lot, I have all their albums from Rush to Exit Stage Left and they're all at least very good some are excellent.
However Prog they are definitely NOT. |
your serious? have you ever Listened to Hemispheres? Cygnus C-1? 2112??? You can't seriously say those songs are not prog! 2112 is as much prog as Close to the Edge.
Of couse they should be in the Super Prog category.
Oh, yeah, it does NOT matter what so ever where the band comes from. It's like not adding Opeth or POS into the Prog Metal Greats genre because they're not American. Prejudice.
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Yes I am serious.
No more Prog than Iron Maiden on Seventh Son. |
Just look at the evidence - side-long epics (on Caress of Steel, 2112 and Hemispheres), multi-part epics (the afore-mentioned plus By-Tor and the Snow Dog to name but one), songs about fantasy subjects (The Necromancer), songs based on classical poetry (Xanadu), use of unusual time signatures (many examples), use of electronic instrumentation etc etc. Granted this applies mainly to their early stuff, but they still meet the criteria with ease. How can you have a song called "By-Tor and the Snow Dog" and not be prog?
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 08:00 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
I could care less if someone likes or dislikes Rush. If you don't like Rush, that's fine and I can totally understand why. It's when you close yourself off becuase a band doesn't have the name you like, and you are unwilling to accept that their's other music that is great and might even be better than those classics you love.
One can be elitist, but please don't be stubborn enough to believe that Yes is the only band in existence who did anything great and no one will ever do anything great again.(just a random example)
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The name of the band matters not with me. I listen to many bands but some just stick out with me as being more personally appealling. Porcupine Tree is one of those bands. I love their stuff, but I seldom listen to Rush anymore at all. I seldom listen to Genesis anymore to be honest. I have never been a real big fan of "metal" although I do spin the odd disc once in a while. I am always on the look out for new music I can get my head around. Simple as that.
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:53 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
I could care less if someone likes or dislikes Rush. If you don't like Rush, that's fine and I can totally understand why. It's when you close yourself off becuase a band doesn't have the name you like, and you are unwilling to accept that their's other music that is great and might even be better than those classics you love.
One can be elitist, but please don't be stubborn enough to believe that Yes is the only band in existence who did anything great and no one will ever do anything great again.(just a random example)
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There are bands of the "new era" that I love. Porcupine Tree is one for sure. I do not enjoy music just because a certain band performs it. I know what I like and I like what I know.
To me Heavy Metal or even so called "hard rock" wears thin with me. This is not to say I don't listen to it, but just not quite as often. As
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 07:14 |
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Please! Does it really matter that much? Anyone is free to make their
own "Big 6" or "Super Prog Category", with whatever bands they want.
Making an elite category would only be inflamatory, because there will
always be someone who feel some band(s) are left out.
Personally, I have always regarded Rush as one of the greats, but I can
understand why some people doesn't. The thing is, I know that the
people who doesn't consider Rush as one of the "Big 6" will never do
it, so there's no point in trying to convince them. Rush is one of
those bands that you either adore or hate, and it's important to
respect other people's opinions, to let them like whatever they want.
Can't you people see how pointless this discussion is?
Edited by Philéas - July 25 2006 at 07:15
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 06:34 |
Hierophant wrote:
I would say yes, to a lesser extent compared to the prog "dinosaurs" of
the 70s. Rush were definitely influential. Dream Theater would not
exist if it weren't for Rush, and if DT didn't exist than a whole host
of 90s prog/prog metal "revival" bands would not have existed either.
but... Rush were not innovators like Genesis, Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd who are the forefathers of prog-rock.
They pioneered the complex song structures and laid the foundations for
Rush to plug their own ideas into. Not to mention they came from a
later generation of music. In the shadow's of the prog dinosaurs of the
70s Rush are a speck on the radar screen. No one is denying they made great music,
but I think the the super d00per [morgan freeman] catagory of prog rock
is reserved for the classic prog bands who were the trailblazers of
prog.
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I do!
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Hierophant
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 11 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 651
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 05:39 |
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I would say yes, to a lesser extent compared to the prog "dinosaurs" of the 70s. Rush were definitely influential. Dream Theater would not exist if it weren't for Rush, and if DT didn't exist than a whole host of 90s prog/prog metal "revival" bands would not have existed either.
but... Rush were not innovators like Genesis, Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd who are the forefathers of prog-rock. They pioneered the complex song structures and laid the foundations for Rush to plug their own ideas into. Not to mention they came from a later generation of music. In the shadow's of the prog dinosaurs of the 70s Rush are a speck on the radar screen. No one is denying they made great music, but I think the the super d00per [morgan freeman] catagory of prog rock is reserved for the classic prog bands who were the trailblazers of prog.
Edited by Hierophant - July 25 2006 at 05:43
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pirkka
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 06 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 191
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Posted: July 25 2006 at 04:41 |
Progressive music is music that progresses. It is kinda opposite to verse based music that keeps repeating the same chorus (pop or rock). Some rock bands seem to progress (like Doors and Lynyrd Skynyrd) but its not prog music. Roughly: rock moves your ass and prog your brain. In songs like LA Woman or Free Bird it is not the musical theme that progresses but the rhythm, the swing. In prog the progressive element is the harmony struckture (melodies and arrangement). It is a variation of sonata form.
A band is not either prog or not prog. It is a composition that should be evaluated. A band that has a tendency to produce more or less proggish compositions should be listed as a prog band.
Pirkka
Edited by pirkka - July 25 2006 at 04:43
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Can we put Rush in the super prog category?
