Kraut Rock

i notice there is a section in prog archives labelled "kraut rock", describing mainly german avant-garde bands of the 70's. i am english but the question i have to ask is in today's "politically correct" society is:  are there any german members who are offended by this term?  do they or anybody for that matter consider it derogatory or racist in the context of a descriptive term for a music genre or whatever? if i used the term at work in a derogatory sense i would face the sack, or at worst find myself in court. if i was german i would be offended by the term however it was used. the terms "brit pop" and "italian prog" sound fine but i doubt if any americans would be very happy with the term "yank rock" if it existed, or i would not be happy with the term "limey rock" if that existed! how do any of our german members feel about this? should the "kraut rock" section in prog archive be re-labelled "deutsche rock"?

below is a definition of the term from wikipedia;

"since world war 2, Kraut has, in the English language, come to be used as a derogatory term for a German. This is probably based on sauerkraut, which was very popular in german cuisine at that time. The stereotype of the sauerkraut-eating German dates back to long before this time, though, as can for example be seen in jules verne's depiction of the evil German industrialist Schultz as an avid sauerkraut eater in "the five hundred million of the begum".."

on the other hand, though...

"However, because much of the music produced by these bands has since come to be very highly regarded, the term "krautrock" is now generally seen as an accolade rather than an insult."

...anybody agree with that??

Edited by mystic fred

I should think not... especially since I read the term 'krautrock' was termed by....members of one of the groups.  I'd be a bit disappointed if anyone was..... "Sticks and Stones can break my bones.. but words can never hurt me".... people seem to have forgotten that these days.

Strangely enough I was investigating the Krautrock section last night and I had the same thoughts. I thought it was a bit insulting to German people but after reading BaldFriede´s comments it seems to be OK.

I was listening to the various tracks listed therre and really loved Ashra, Walkin in the desert I think was the name of the song. I will definately check out more of this band!

BaldFriede wrote: micky wrote: I should think not... especially since I read the term 'krautrock' was termed by....members of one of the groups.  I'd be a bit disappointed if anyone was..... "Sticks and Stones can break my bones.. but words can never hurt me".... people seem to have forgotten that these days. In fact the term stems from the first Krautrock album ever, "Psychedelic Underground" by Amon Düül. There is a track on that album named "Mama Düül und ihre Sauerkrautband spielt auf".

The term's also backed up by the opener on Faust IV, simply entitled "Krautrock".
 

I see it in the same way that some subgroup of society adopts a derogatory name in a sense of irony and turns it into a badge of honor, like "nerds" or "geeks".

"Politically correct" is another such term.  It was invented by right-wingers to insult the left, but the left adopted it with pride anyway.

 

I enjoyed Ashra because of that far away Floydish type of guitar sound. I´m totally new to this genre of music, I love prog with guitar solos here and there in a song. What band has that?(from Krautrock) Also what album by Ashra is a must have?

Anyone?

Get albums by Ash Ra Tempel, the band before Ashra. Highly recommended: Their first self-titled album, "Schwingungen" and "Join Inn". Also check out the Cosmic Jokers, especially their first self-titled album and "Galactic Supermarket"; Manuel Göttsching, the guitar player of Ashra, played on these albums.
You might also like the guitar of the late Michael Karoli of Can. Try "Soon Over Babalooma" for a start or their self-titled album. Karoli also plays violin occasionally.
If you like that kind of "cosmic" guitar á la Pink Floyd, you might also want to try Steve Hillage, Christian Boulé, the first album of Clearlight (on which both Hillage and Boulé appear) or Here & Now. Gong has some spaced out guitar too (it is the band where Steve Hillage first played in). Also check out Khan and Arzachel, two bands Steve Hillage also played in.

mystic fred wrote: the terms "brit pop" and "italian prog" sound fine but i doubt if any americans would be very happy with the term "yank rock" if it existed...

Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, John Mellencamp = "yank rock"!

Bob Dylan = genious

Edited by necromancing777

Dr Know wrote: I enjoyed Ashra because of that far away Floydish type of guitar sound. I´m totally new to this genre of music, I love prog with guitar solos here and there in a song. What band has that?(from Krautrock) Also what album by Ashra is a must have? Anyone?

If you haven`t heard anything from Jane go for some of their early stuff. Some recommendations: Together, Jane III, Fire, Water, Earth & Air, Between Heaven & Hell and Live At Home. All of these albums contain some freaky guitar solos.

Eugene, I agree with you. They do belong more to the Symphonic Prog genre then bands like Can, Faust etc.

Dr.Know - try Kraan - Andy Nogger, great album !