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MikeEnRegalia 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21206
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 Posted: February 22 2006 at 15:06 |
 BaldFriede wrote:
Fragile wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Having seen both Fish solo and Fish with Marillion neither can hold a candle to Yes live as much as I love the Fish man.As for voices Anderson's uniqueness give his voice to my ears a purity that no one else even Greg Lake at his peak can match..As for range and diversity I cannot begin to argue with you as both men (Hammill and Gabriel) have more diverse voices in that they can stretch from one octave to the next two or three.Hammill's control is awesome.But that other stuff about adventurous leaps and decorations is way off.And who are the many others? Neither Fish nor Hammill can hit the emotions like on 'Soon' and 'Turn of the Century to name but a few.
Taken from the official book of facts.
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Sorry, but I always regarded lack of emotion as the chief fault of Jon Anderson.
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Mystified Baldfriede simply mystified
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Perhaps "lack of emotion" is not the right phrase. He seems to be stuck on the same emotion all the time. There are certain emotions he just can't get across. Just listen to the lines "The fist will run, grasp metal to gun, the spirit sings in crashing tones, we gain the battle drum. Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn. The pen won't stay the demon's wing, the hour approaches, pounding out the devil's sermon". Anderson just doesn't have the voice to sing lyrics like this. He is good at the angelic voices; the demonic ones he should leave to others.
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Agreed ... the vocal style has to match the emotional "message" of the lyrics. Peter Hammill is quite good at that ... but he's not the only one. From the (prog) metal realm Russell Allen would be my first choice.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2530
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 15:48 |
When YOU become an admin YOU can threaten me with a warning - until then.....
And I think I'm right in saying you referred to me as a w**ker - anyway, what about them mellotrons??
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 15:56 |
horza wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
horza wrote:
Was I called a bad name there and threatened with a warning?  |
Yes - and quite frankly, I wouldn't laugh about it if I were you.
You have broken the forum rules with your insults, which is extremely bad form from a collaborator.
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When YOU become an admin YOU can threaten me with a warning - until then.....
And I think I'm right in saying you referred to me as a w**ker - anyway, what about them mellotrons?? |
One of the disciplines of being a Collaborator is to uphold the highest standards of decorum and forum etiquette,you should not admonish Cert for reminding you of this.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 16:10 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Right Cert we will have to disagree again those two are average Joes as singers.The Radiohead one is bamboozling I think he is very poor,I guess it has to be your ears after all |
I find it bamboozling that anyone could actually like Jon Anderson, as I think he is very poor. |
Agreed.
But that doesn't diminish the importance of tracks like CttE. After all, the vocals are just one small part of the whole effort.
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Please note that I have not at any point said that Yes are unimportant or even bad...
I just don't like 'em, on the whole.
Edited by Certif1ed
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 16:54 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Fragile wrote:
I'm beginning ti think your taste is hanging in the
western wind Cert at first I thought you were trying to make sense now
with your latest outburst it is very clear it's your taste buds that
are a poor.Muse are ok for 1 to 2 songs max; the singer is boring and
Radiohead are very poor if those are your singers Cert then you enjoy
them.But reciprocated facts, Nah, I don't think so our tastes are just
different I love the greatest prog band ever and you haven't been
blessed with that grace but that's your misfortune. |
If you truly think Yes are the greatest prog-band ever you haven't heard much.
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I have to disagree with you there Friede. I have heard 100s of prog bands and only Gabriel's Genesis come close to Yes at their peak, but that is just my opinion.
Edited by chopper
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Blackleaf
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 22 2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 64
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 21:10 |
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Don't mind me intruding, but...
I think Lightning Strikes by Yes, despite it's jaunty nature, might just be my favourite song ever.
BL~
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bruin69
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 319
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 21:13 |
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Strange how different our perceptions are - I still get shivers down my spine listening to Jon Anderson singing "The fist will run, grasp metal to gun..." etc - still one of the most chilling anti-war statements in music - it's certainly true that both Peter Gabriel and Peter Hammill have a good (not great) vocal range - remember one of the reasons Phil Collins took over as vocalist in Genesis was that he had already augmented Gabriel's voice on previous albums, helping him out when Gabriel couldn't make the high notes - and possibly Hammill has a greater emotional range - though he can go WAY over the top at times and veer into Liza Minelli-style histrionics - what Jon Anderson is able to do is impart a sincerity (maybe sometimes somewhat overbearingly sweet) that has a direct emotional effect on the listener - well, at least, to this listener!
Edited by bruin69
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Soul Dreamer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 997
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 21:18 |
bruin69 wrote:
Strange how different our perceptions are - I still get shivers down my spine listening to Jon Anderson singing "The fist will run, grasp metal to gun..." etc - still one of the most chilling anti-war statements in music - it's certainly true that both Peter Gabriel and Peter Hammill have a good (not great) vocal range - remember one of the reasons Phil Collins took over as vocalist in Genesis was that he had already augmented Gabriel's voice on previous albums, helping him out when Gabriel couldn't make the high notes - and possibly Hammill has a greater emotional range - though he can go WAY over the top at times and veer into Liza Minelli-style histrionics - what Jon Anderson is able to do is impart a sincerity (maybe sometimes somewhat overbearingly sweet) that has a direct emotional effect on the listener - well, at least, to this listener! |
Count me in!
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: February 22 2006 at 21:27 |
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1125
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 06:08 |
There has always been the tendency in Proglodites like ourselves to delve further and experiment with the more obscure types of music after we have gorged on all that was readily available.I'm not saying it's a bad thing but sometimes people tend to try and be that little bit more eccentric with their tastes.I never went to far in that direction as it wasn't for me and I probably wasn't that daring but I cannot listen to a band unless the singer is of a certain standard or is unique.Hence I return to what sparked my original entrance into the thread that of the vocalist.To me he or she is the most important part of any great band.And Mr.Jon Anderson is certainly a great lead vocalist who has spanned almost 4 decades and can still sing live as good today as he did at the time when Yes ruled the Prog Universe.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 06:27 |
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I don't need a singer at all. Vocals are not that very important for
me. That does not mean I don't like great vocalists (I'm a Hammill
aficionado), but a band can still be great with a mediocre vocalist, as
long as the instrumental texture is the most important for them and the
vocals are only a garnishment. King Crimson rarely had great vocalists,
but I love them nevertheless.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1125
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 06:38 |
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As does my 18 year old daughter Baldfriede, in all their various changes. Although I loved it when Jon guested with them but Greg Lake would be my fave Crimson singer.
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20030
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 07:34 |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 07:40 |
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Anyway, what defines a great vocalist? The late Robert Calvert, for
example, had a very limited vocal range and hardly ever hit a note, yet
he is in my opinion one of the greatest vocalists of all time. His
sprechgesang was absolutely unique, and his voice is unmistakable.
That's why I can tell he "sings" on "Hauptmotor" by the British Amon
Düül on their album "Fool Moon", although he is not credited in the
liner notes of the album.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 22:55 |
Tony R wrote:
horza wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
horza wrote:
Was I called a bad name there and threatened with a warning? |
Yes - and quite frankly, I wouldn't laugh about it if I were you.
You have broken the forum rules with your insults, which is extremely bad form from a collaborator.
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When YOU become an admin YOU can threaten me with a warning - until then.....
And I think I'm right in saying you referred to me as a w**ker - anyway, what about them mellotrons?? |
One of the disciplines of being a Collaborator is to uphold the highest standards of decorum and forum etiquette,you should not admonish Cert for reminding you of this.
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I don't get this. Cert called him a w**ker. Is that ok then, but to admonish not?
Can I call Cert a w**ker then? I know I'd like to!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 23:02 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Fragile wrote:
I'm beginning ti think your taste is hanging in the western wind Cert at first I thought you were trying to make sense now with your latest outburst it is very clear it's your taste buds that are a poor.Muse are ok for 1 to 2 songs max; the singer is boring and Radiohead are very poor if those are your singers Cert then you enjoy them.But reciprocated facts, Nah, I don't think so our tastes are just different I love the greatest prog band ever and you haven't been blessed with that grace but that's your misfortune. |
If you truly think Yes are the greatest prog-band ever you haven't heard much.
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And so speaks the true Prog snob ellitist. I always new you looked down on us lowly mortals who loke "pop" music like Yes, Genesis etc.
Why do you think CTTE is number one? It must be because it is mercilessly played on MTV all the time. People who rate it so highly must be morons who mindlessly accept anything fed to them!
If Magma or Gong had the number one album here wpuild that make you happy? Of course not, how copuld you be a patronising, condescending elitist then?
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 23:13 |
BaldFriede wrote:
chopper wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
Fragile wrote:
I'm beginning ti think your taste is hanging in the
western wind Cert at first I thought you were trying to make sense now
with your latest outburst it is very clear it's your taste buds that
are a poor.Muse are ok for 1 to 2 songs max; the singer is boring and
Radiohead are very poor if those are your singers Cert then you enjoy
them.But reciprocated facts, Nah, I don't think so our tastes are just
different I love the greatest prog band ever and you haven't been
blessed with that grace but that's your misfortune. |
If you truly think Yes are the greatest prog-band ever you haven't heard much.
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I
have to disagree with you there Friede. I have heard 100s of prog bands
and only Gabriel's Genesis come close to Yes at their peak, but that is
just my opinion.
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Well, your taste definitely does not lean towards the more daring and
experimental, if Yes and Genesis are the pillars of prog for you. But
mine does.
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hmmm... I do disagree as well, and other than prog-metal, I
consider myself well-versed (though of course by no means completely
so) in prog in all it's forms. I happen to really enjoy the
daring and experimental... but could it be that the more daring and
experimental you go... the further you push yourself from the
mainstream of the non-mainstream hahahha (you know what I mean I hope)
thus ended up in what I tend to call 'cult' status. A small
group of rabid and devoted fans but even, in general, amoung fans
of genre.. polarizing at best.. unknown at worst. Just thinking
out loud so don't torch me too hard hahahha. Yes probably would
and probably could be considered prog's greatest band. It has the
longevity, multiple classic albums of the genre, represents what
many people associate with prog: epic compositions, stellar
instrumental talents, a willingness to show those talents off
hahahah, an association to prog amoung those who couldn't name 10 prog
groups if their lives depended on it.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 23:17 |
Certif1ed wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
He makes the mistake of singing these lyrics beautifully, which is plain nonsense, in my opinion. The lyrics have nothing to do with beauty, and the voice should mirror that. That's what I love about Peter Hammill: You don't need to understand a word to understand what he is singing about. He would have sung that line totally differently. |
Its no mistake and it is sung perfectly. Please don't make fictitious rules about singing!
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BF isn't making a rule, ficticious or otherwise - but I think she's right.
Thats how it seems to me...and I think she's wrong!
The tone of voice and choice of melody should express the lyrics to create a reasonable song - otherwise what's the point?
You don't like Relayer, so why argue about it. The song is sung correctly.
How can anyone sing a song "perfectly"? 
They can't. Its just my opinion. No one can be absolutely perfect and this is just a cheap point scoring shot. |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 23:18 |
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cobb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 10 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1149
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Posted: February 23 2006 at 23:33 |
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A lot of better than thou attitudes here....
It's good to see the collabs getting into it. Good advice from Tony R though.
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