Jesus Christ Super Star

"Progressive," re music, has outlived its utility, and become meaningless.

Please see my last post on page 1.

I'm not trying to make a case for including ALW, but JATTCDC remains the first rock opera - you can't take that away from it, simply because it was the first operetta (really) to be based on rock music.

Many schools perform it - I was musical director for the performance at my school, and loved playing the music. That doesn't make "Joseph..." Prog, but it is very progressive, and includes a good balance of Prog elements - classical influences, ROCK, unusual time signatures (e.g. 7/4), modulations to different keys and so forth.

JCS is a whole new ball game - it's a fully-fledged opera with recitative and aria in the traditional sense, an epic story (you can't get much more epic!), and the music and constructions are far more sophisticated than "Joseph". It's also in the right era - so why not Prog Rock? I can't think of a single GOOD reason, apart from loathing ALW for the trite musicals he's come up with since.

"Variations" is a Prog Rock album of the highest order.

But can you imagine "Evita" or "Cats" in the Archives?

It's a tough one, I agree - but don't just shoot "Joseph...", "JCS" and "Variations" down in flames unless you can some up with a better reason than "They're by ALW...".

 i dont know.... im confused

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Snow Dog wrote: A Rock Opera is progressive Rock by default? No it isn't! Agreed. Neither concept albums nor "operas" make something prog "by default".

Yes, actually, a Rock Opera IS a very progressive thing to do - not many have achieved it. Tommy isn't really a Rock Opera, as it doesn't have proper recitative passages or arias per se.

But having Classical influences and using them with Rock is just one of  a number of important progressive elements.

There is also a very diverse range of styles in JCS - as there should be in an opera. This is another important Prog element.

The music itself develops as the work progresses - this is fundamental to Prog Rock.

The initial productions were scored for Rock band, and would have been very different to any of the recorded versions, but there are several recorded versions, and each is markedly different in character. It's so loose that it can be re-interpreted - ie very progressive.

I'll stop now - 4 solid reasons should do for the time being (in addition to those I've already given).

But that is a minor and moot point you're both picking up on (and not for the first time, I might add...) - the point is that not ONE single reason has been given for why this is not Prog Rock.

FOR: At least 4 good reasons.

AGAINST: It's by Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Compelling...

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Incidentally: I thought that it was a musical, not an opera. Please be as exact as you expect your "opponents" to be.

Why do you persist with this moot point?

JCS has recitative and aria, and it is acted. It is a drama set to music, based on an epic story - ergo Opera. A good example of an Opera is Verdi's "La Traviata".

A Musical is a play whose action and dialogue is broken up with songs. A good example, or an example that illustrates what a musical is, at least, is Lionel Bart's "Oliver!".

An Operetta comes somewhere between - it may have dialogue, but only to flesh it out - e.g. Mozart's "Die Zauberflote".

A Pantomime is an allegedly comic interpretation of a children's fairy tale, typically performed after Christmas, that features dialogue and song, in a similar style to a musical, but with audience participation, a large and often topical range of jokes, and dialogue that is often in rhyming couplets.

I wonder why I suddenly thought of a pantomime...

Please learn the terms before taking on someone who has a deep understanding of them - then you stand a chance of at least approaching the argument from a more appropriate level 

Or are you thinking of changing your handle to Fozzie Bear?

Certif1ed wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Incidentally: I thought that it was a musical, not an opera. Please be as exact as you expect your "opponents" to be.   Why do you persist with this moot point?

I'm only trying to annoy you, Cert.

Actually, after reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_opera

I agree that JCS may be more an opera than a musical.