Yes, an open discussion-how not to do it!

Yes are in my top 5 prog bands..and there are still Yes albums I need to investigate!! (90's and beyond)

Close to the Edge is their best album IMO, and is a prog rock masterpiece, capturing the true spirit of the genre. It's complex, brilliantly played, full or beautiful melodies, and very emotional. it's also well produced.

Going for the One is my second favourite Yes album. It's very different to CTTE, but the spirt of the band is still there, just represented by more concise songs, and it features some of Howes best acoustic playing and some of Wakemens best piano playing.

Both albums would be in my prog top 10 of all time. Jon Anderson is certainly one of my favourite singers, I accept the view that his voice may be too feminine for some, but it's pitch perfect, crystal clear and unmistakable, and that appeals to me. It's an integral part of the Yes machine, and as much as I do like the Drama album, it would have been much better with Anderson at the helm.

Tony Fisher wrote: A talented but very inconsistent band. They have a lot in common with Dream Theater - excellent musicians but tend to show off too much. Their compositional skills are better than DT but they can get too pretentious lyrically and the vocals are an acquired taste. They overstretched their talents with TFTO and became rather poppy later on, though it was still very good pop. Ratings for the albums I have: Time and a Word 3* The Yes Album 5* Fragile 3* CTTE 4* (side 1 is 5*!) TFTO 2* Relayer 4* Going for the One 3* Tormato 3* Drama 3* Not my favourite band of the 70s; better than KC, VDGG and ELP but behind Genesis, Camel, Tull, GG, Strawbs and Floyd. On a par with Rush and Caravan.

I have to say that your ratings of the albums are extremely harsh, and that I think people seem to think that Yes weren't consistent because of their ever changing style and sound, not many people accomplished that...

I love Caravan! but even I can admit that Yes are a million miles ahead of them

Phil wrote: Listening to Close to the Edge back in 1976 really opened up my ears to a new world of music, I've been a Yes fan ever since, and coming to PA I was pleased and a little suprised that they were so popular here - I admit I was chuffed to find my favourite album at the top of a poll somewhere! I think their peak creatively was from The Yes Album through to Drama, after which I think things got a little inconsistent and I must admit I havent heard all their later material. During the period I mention, they really did progress from album to album - by progress I mean try something new, not just sit on their laurels and re-create their previous album. You can see a progression from The Yes Album to Fragile; then a quantum leap to CTTE; Tales is maybe one exception, an album that didn't "progress" in quite the same way, but then they created Relayer, a very different Yes album and one I know a lot of people here feel is their best. Relayer was I think a one-off - I know some people think Moraz should have stayed but they're missing the point - there was never giong to be a son-of-Relayer, instead Anderson (who in terms of the concept of each album seems the driving force) wanted to go back to making some songs, hence Going for the One. Tormato could have been really, really good - it has its moments - but things were changing; instead of the band fighting over each note and chord change and who plays what, somehow they seemed to lose their enthusiasm and it shows on Tormato; it took Squire to re-launch the band with Drama - and then again with 90125, for a very different Yes. So what of the individual players? Yes has always been a group that is greater than the sum of its parts.They all have powerful personalities, but no one single driving force. Anderson seems to have been responsible for the theme of each album; Squire seems especially concerned with quality of the music and recording, insisting on perfection in the studio. Steve Howe and then Rick Wakeman were brought on board to replace players that were good, but perhaps didn't have that special something to match the increasing ambitions of the band, not just in terms of playing, but composing and especially contributing to the arrangements. Howe became the major composer along with Anderson; Wakeman's contribution was more subtle, suggesting variations and extemporisations on themes (on Close to the Edge listen to how the guitar solo on the intro is re-worked by Wakeman on the moog just before his hammond solo - different time signature, different key, barely recognisable at first listen). Bruford was - is - a great drummer, and was the first member to leave of his own choice, but after a hesitant start on Tales, White and Squire formed possibly an even better rythmn section, Relayer being perhaps the best work the two of them have done. And Pat Moraz - an excellent player with the unenviable task of filling Wakemans shoes - well, Moraz gave Relayer an electric sound all of his own, one that Walkeman couldn't have done, though at times it sounds like he's a bit player to Howe and Squire. People (not on this site!) sometimes dismiss Moraz and that's unfair - though on the other hand whether he deesrves all the accolades sometimes heaped on him in PA, given the limit of his achievements before and after Yes, well that's a matter of opinion! The later choice of the Buggles was an unusual one but it worked and revived Yes at a time they had stagnated, and ditto with Trevor Rabin, though I do think the quality of composition then started to fall away. For those that haven't seen them live, they are very good and sometimes excellent on stage, I have special memories of 1977 as the lights went up at Wembley and phtographers rushed towards Rick as he pounded out the opening chords of "Parallels"....great stuff....

Wow I was delighted to read that! What you say in the first three lines is exactly what happened to me!! That I am not kidding about! (Except I got into CTTE around 2002 not 1976 ) But wow, your feelings about the band are very similar to mine. You don't seem to be as critical of band members,or albums that were different etc. I appreciate that very much

I've never managed to get into Yes - I just don't like the sound of their music, and it completely fails to transport me to any dimension other than annoyance at most of the lyrics, Anderson's awful helium-filled singing style and frankly half-baked Crosby, Stills and Nash style harmonies, and the inability to develop a good groove (which, on the positive side, they often manage to get into).

I first heard Yes decades ago - I borrowed "Relayer" and another album (I forget which) from a friend and taped them. Despite not liking the music, I held onto the tapes and repeatedly gave them a try - without success. I've since acquired all their back catalogue on the original vinyl - but still no joy. Something in there just switches me off completely and makes me wish I was listening to something else.

I could care less about the razor-sharp production, crisp guitar execution, tight drumming and wonderful phat bass sound - the music all seems like overblown, overrated, pretentious drivel and I don't know why I keep giving it additional chances.

Well... you did ask 

Winter Wine wrote: Blacksword wrote: Yes are in my top 5 prog bands..and there are still Yes albums I need to investigate!! (90's and beyond) Close to the Edge is their best album IMO, and is a prog rock masterpiece, capturing the true spirit of the genre. It's complex, brilliantly played, full or beautiful melodies, and very emotional. it's also well produced. Going for the One is my second favourite Yes album. It's very different to CTTE, but the spirt of the band is still there, just represented by more concise songs, and it features some of Howes best acoustic playing and some of Wakemens best piano playing. Both albums would be in my prog top 10 of all time. Jon Anderson is certainly one of my favourite singers, I accept the view that his voice may be too feminine for some, but it's pitch perfect, crystal clear and unmistakable, and that appeals to me. It's an integral part of the Yes machine, and as much as I do like the Drama album, it would have been much better with Anderson at the helm. Close to the Edge and going for the one were the first two albums I heard from the band, Found them in my dads record collection. So I share your love for those two albums!  But I think there is a couple of Yes albums that could take Going for the One

I think many would agree with you on that..

CTTE and GFTO are the only two Yes albums on which I love every track. Relayer, has its moments, but the cacophony seems to dominate too much for my taste..

I like Fragile and The Yes Album equally. Who couldn't like Starship Trooper and Heart of the Sunrise..

Tormato is ok, but a dissapointment after GFTO, IMO. I think the reason I like GFTO so much is because it exudes a bright positivity at a time when prog was arguably taking a nose dive! Yes, with Wakemen back on board proved that they could not only still cut it, but also have hit singles that were obviously prog, whilst having to compete with all that punk nonesense. For anyone who argues that GFTO is not prog enough for them, it does at least have Awaken, which I think is one of their best songs ever. I also have a big soft spot for 'Turn of the Century'  The album seems to sum up the whole point of Yes - emotion, melody, musicianship - in a very tidy and consistent package.. Thats my take on it, anyway..

Certif1ed wrote: I've never managed to get into Yes - I just don't like the sound of their music, and it completely fails to transport me to any dimension other than annoyance at most of the lyrics, Anderson's awful helium-filled singing style and frankly half-baked Crosby, Stills and Nash style harmonies, and the inability to develop a good groove (which, on the positive side, they often manage to get into). I first heard Yes decades ago - I borrowed "Relayer" and another album (I forget which) from a friend and taped them. Despite not liking the music, I held onto the tapes and repeatedly gave them a try - without success. I've since acquired all their back catalogue on the original vinyl - but still no joy. Something in there just switches me off completely and makes me wish I was listening to something else. I could care less about the razor-sharp production, crisp guitar execution, tight drumming and wonderful phat bass sound - the music all seems like overblown, overrated, pretentious drivel and I don't know why I keep giving it additional chances. Well... you did ask

So what do you do? Sit there with a lyrics sheet and scoff? That's odd. Half-baked vocal harmonies? eh, right, have you heard their debut? Vocal harmonies don't come much better than Yes. Helium filled voice? Maybe if you sat around all day and listened to Slipknot meets Opeth! Then it would seem like that!!!

Certif1ed wrote: Winter Wine wrote: Certif1ed wrote: I've never managed to get into Yes - I just don't like the sound of their music, and it completely fails to transport me to any dimension other than annoyance at most of the lyrics, Anderson's awful helium-filled singing style and frankly half-baked Crosby, Stills and Nash style harmonies, and the inability to develop a good groove (which, on the positive side, they often manage to get into). I first heard Yes decades ago - I borrowed "Relayer" and another album (I forget which) from a friend and taped them. Despite not liking the music, I held onto the tapes and repeatedly gave them a try - without success. I've since acquired all their back catalogue on the original vinyl - but still no joy. Something in there just switches me off completely and makes me wish I was listening to something else. I could care less about the razor-sharp production, crisp guitar execution, tight drumming and wonderful phat bass sound - the music all seems like overblown, overrated, pretentious drivel and I don't know why I keep giving it additional chances. Well... you did ask  So what do you do? Sit there with a lyrics sheet and scoff? That's odd. Half-baked vocal harmonies? eh, right, have you heard their debut? Vocal harmonies don't come much better than Yes. Helium filled voice? Maybe if you sat around all day and listened to Slipknot meets Opeth! Then it would seem like that!!! Who needs a lyrics sheet? The ones I can hear are trite enough. Do I really need to quote - I'd bet you know exactly what I'm talking about. I've heard all of their albums, and the debut has probably the worst harmonies - Anderson sings flat, and don't try telling me he doesn't, because I have perfect pitch. Crosby, Stills and Nash did that years before, and it suited their folky style. Yes vocal harmonies are very dry and not very imaginative, generally sticking to "safe" options and "step" movement rather than anything particularly interesting - there are thousands of vocal groups that do better harmonies!! Queen walk all over them, even on Radio Ga Ga... I think "helium-filled" is an appropriate, if slightly caustic way to describe a voice that sits mainly around the high tenor/falsetto register - what's wrong with that? It's higher than average - am I wrong? Come, come - if you're going to try to argue against what is an invited opinion, you're going to have to do considerably better than that!

Ok you say that they played things safe by keeping things simple, so what? It has to be more complex to be good? You want a band who is always said to have gone over the top, to actually be more technical? Do you like to listen to robots!!!!!!!!! If something works,It works, why in HELL would you purposely try to complicate things!

No matter how much you whine, you can take away the fact that Yes were a truly original band! excellent songwriters, talented musicians and a band who made music that could really send you someplace else!

It would be predictable to give a smart arsed comment. But at the end of the day, I most likely won't care

Yes is not my favorite band or even in my top 5.  But come on.  To say they do not use all their talent is ludicrous.  How many ideas even in a progressive rock context within a style of a band are there? 

It is especially hard for any musician to keep up a high level of out put over a ten year period of time.  It is even harder for a group of musicians to do that. Yes has been producing music since 1969.  That's 36 years.  36 Years!  Are any of the critics of this band going to tell me there is another group that has been consistently better for 36 years? 

 Remember something else about these guys they came up with kind of music they did being very young men as was the case with Genesis, VDGG, Kansas, King Crimson and most other bands from that era. I am sure at some point in their careers they look at what they did cynically and maybe even create music in direct opposition to what they had produced earlier in their carers.  I know Peter Gabriel did that.

The point being a fan of The Yes album by the time Going for the One came out 7 years later might not even recognize the music.  Certainly by the time Drama came out the person who listened to Going for the one wouldn't recognize or care for the music.

I say like them or not they are true pioneers who produced some of the best examples of Prog Rock as we define it.