We -need- progressive rap.

Ivan: Again, there's been a miscommunication on my part. When I referred to the "rap community," I meant people who actually listen to rap as music and appreciate it, not the people who listen to radio rap like 50 Cent just because it's popular. Those people aren't rap fans - they're popular music fans. If rap wasn't popular, most of them wouldn't listen to it, and therefore I do not include them as a part of the rap community.

Why in hell does Music Industry still release music that most of the world hates? How in hell is mainstream Rap music so massively bought if most Rap community hates them? Doesn't music industry wants to gain money? If you said yes, why do they insist in musicians most of the rap community hates (but buys massively.

I didn't say most of the world hates rap; once again, you misunderstood me. Just because mainstream rap is terrible doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people who like it. Britney Spears sells millions of records despite the fact that she is terrible, and the same goes for guys like 50 Cent and the like. However, it's clear that most serious music listeners (rap fans and non-rap fans alike) can't stand them.

Mainstream rap music is massively bought by the pop community, not the rap community, as I said before. People are sheep, they'll buy what's marketed to them, and at the moment, that's what rap is. However, there are many real fans of rap who listen to it because they love it, and if you can find any of those true fans who like mainstream rap, I'll be surprised.

Yes, the music industry wants to gain money.

I've already explained that mainstream rap isn't marketed to rap fans, it's marketed to people who don't know any better, who would buy anything that the music industry tried to sell them.

Now, I've posted this several times and nobody has responded to it yet, which is probably because nobody can come up with a reasonable response. Please, if you're going to respond to anything I've written, respond to this:

I don't understand why everone here is trying to pidgeon-hole rap and create artificial rules about what can and cannot be done within the genre. Progressive music is all about not following such rules; it's about thinking outside the box and trying new things. Why are so many of you acting as if that's impossible in this case? It doesn't make any sense to me.


Edited by Ty1020

Ty 1020 wrote:

Like I said, I've never heard prog on the radio. Just because the radio played good music 30 years ago doesn't mean it still does; you have to realize that the mainstream media today is much different than it was in the 70's, and it's very rare to hear anything good or interesting on the radio

I know that, but just in this moment I'm listening Birds of Fire by Mahavishnu Orchestra in Stereo Lima 100, and never heard in any radio good rap.

Ty1020 wrote:

This is even more true with rap, a genre in which virtually none of the mainstream artists have any redeeming qualities. The majority of the rap community hates those "artists

Have you ever studied logics? Please read your arguments.  Rap community is the biggest in the world right know, if not N° 1 at least N°2, that's a fact.

You say most Rap community hates mainstream artists.

Then using simple logic most people in the world hate mainstrean Rap artists:

• Why in hell does Music Industry still release music that most of the world hates?
• How in hell is mainstream Rap music so massively bought if most Rap community hates them?
• Doesn't music industry wants to gain money?
• If you said yes, why do they insist in musicians most of the rap community hates (but buys massively.

Your argument has no logic support, and you're talking as a fan more than as a person who wants to reach some degree of truth. I'm a Progressive fan fopr 28 years, and I must accept Prog is unpopular and underground, but not just good Prog', bad Prog is also unpopular, but Rap is popular, the Rap community is big and buys mainstream..........PLEASE

There are far more underground rap artists out there than there are mainstream ones

Please again????????? Why in that case mainstream Rap sells milliopns of albums among a community that in it's mmajority hates it????????

Why are great Rap bands so underground that almost nobody has heard about them if they are so popular?

If good Rap band fans were more than mainstream Rap fans, Music Industry would inmediately stop wasting their money in crappy musicians, because they want to earn money  and they automatically support what is more popular.

But they still support he career of crappy musicians and are more wealthy everyday.

Again, please think before you write.

I'm glad you're aware that good rap is out there

Never said that either, I said I admit the posibility of good Rap as I admit the posibility of aliens living under the surface of Mars, professional wrestling is for real or that women burn in Salem were in fact witches

Finally, would you please explain why you stand by that point of view?

In what I heard and in simple logic.

The most popular music is supported by music industry, if good rap was more popular (or even existed) we would never hear again about Eminem, MC Hammer or Queen Latifa.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

I really dont know what question youre talking about.But i say again,we dont need progressive rap!And i really meant,you came between the post i was refering to.I cant for my life see why this has turned into such a discussion,there is probably four people who thinks we need progressive rap.There cant be such a thing as progressive rap,end of topic.And i mean end of topic.

f**k,there was one post between us

^Word of the day^

no we dont 

Below are some good examples of what progressive rap may sound like. They probably won’t convince many of you but than again, I’ve read a lot of threads in which we were arguing if particular sub-prog generes are prog enough or not. Anyway, here are the examples, in 96kbps bitrate

Tworzywo Sztuczne – Grzyb (lyrics are in Polish, but just listen to the music)
cLOUDDEAD - Apt. A, Pt. 1

Ty1020 wrote:

I can understand why you might think that underground rap is the exception,

I didn't used the word underground, you chosed it to describe the "vast majority" of great Rap bands you say that exist.

Underground: 1 : beneath the surface of the earth
2 : in or into hiding or secret operation

So, must we believe there are hundreed of thousand great rap bands having secret operations beneath the surface, planning to invade the earth wit fantastic Rap?

Undeground is a word used to describe almost unknown and short number of elements, if you used that word, it's not my fault.

Ty1020 wrote:

Where on earth did you get that ridiculous statistic from? It's about as far from the truth as possible. The rap played on the radio represents a very small fraction of what the genre has to offer, and sounds radically different from the good stuff, which receives no radio play.

Where are this fabulous bands that get absolutely no airplay, even King Crimson or the most complex Progressive bands got airplay in their moment and still they have it.

List those inmense anumber of great Rap bands among the world because by a simple deduction:

1. The radios are flooded with rap, 
2.  You say that's only the tip of the iceberg,
3. Then we must accept Rap covers the worldn (and the underworld).

If great Rap is the bigest part of the genre, then mention at least 100 absolutely great Rap bands, even if you did so (what I doubt) it would be a minimal percentage of the rap bands.

By simple logic your deduction is absurd, maybe not 90%, maybe 99% or 80% of the Rap is crap but really nobody here has ever mentioned more than two or three suposedly great Rap musicians in comparison whith the thousand of bands that recieve their chance on radios.

Ty1020 wrote:

I have never heard any real prog on the radio in my entire life; the only music I've heard by prog bands is the 80's pop work of bands like Yes and Genesis

You said it, in that case you wouldn't have heard a single progressive rock song you only heard POP played by former Progressive Rock bands, so you would be unable to make an opinion about Progressive rock.

If a person have only heard MC Hammer or Eminem, that person has listened RAP, because want it or not, like or not, MC Hammer and Eminem always played rap (Well I heard Eminem is making Heavy Metal albums recently ).

So search for a better example.

Ty1020 wrote:

Would it be fair for me to assume, then, that good prog doesn't exist?

For the third time READ MY POSTS BEFORE YOU ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. I never said good Rap doesn't exist
2. I admit the posibility of good rap (even when I haven't heard it).
3. I said that I'm not an expert in rap.
4. I said and I stand on my point of view that there's no chance for Progressive Rap.

You're the one calling me ignorant, close minded and the public enemy of musical evolution.

So again use valid arguments and don't come to me with technicaities, because I'm a lawyer and for that reason I can smell a technicality before I see it.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

This is soooo lame,rap is rap.If it were to cange direction to prograp,why should we bring the rap name with it.It would be just "plain" prog,notice how i use plain.I know there are different types of prog,but never is rap going to be one of them.The hole rap thing is very different from prog,its more  about lyrics and rythm.Where prog is more about music.Rap is really a gang kind of thing,like sl*gging off other people.These music types are more of a opposite direction,like punk and prog.I would more say that rap is modern days punk.

ivan wrote: Read my whole post, I already said I listened rap in commercial radios, the same commercial radios in which I listened The Who, Yes, King Crimson and early Genesis (of course during the classic Rock hours) but I never heard a decent Rap song in any hour of the day.

Where on earth did you get that ridiculous statistic from? It's about as far from the truth as possible. The rap played on the radio represents a very small fraction of what the genre has to offer, and sounds radically different from the good stuff, which receives no radio play.

ivan wrote: UNDRGROUND RAP? In your own words you're giving me the reason, undergrown means bellow the ground, hidden, almost not noticeable for most of the world, then by YOUR definition we're talking about an exception.

Just because it's not as popular as mainstream rap doesn't mean there isn't more of it. I can understand why you might think that underground rap is the exception, but minimal research into the genre would quickly prove otherwise. You simply have no grounds for your argument as you admittedly have no knowledge of the genre except for what you've heard on the radio, which, as we've already been over, is not representative of what real rap is at all.

Let's reverse your logic a bit. I have never heard any real prog on the radio in my entire life; the only music I've heard by prog bands is the 80's pop work of bands like Yes and Genesis, which I hated. Would it be fair for me to assume, then, that good prog doesn't exist? Of course not. If you showed me Close to the Edge and I loved it, would it make sense for me to dismiss it as an "exception" just because I hadn't heard any other good prog? No!  By taking the time to research the genre and trying out some of the good bands, I'd soon find that my opinion of it was terribly wrong. You'd have the same revelation with rap if you just took the time to be open-minded and actually look into it, which is something I'd highly suggest doing.

Edited by Ty1020