We -need- progressive rap.

Prsonaly, if there wa any such thing as a prog rap band, they would have to be very good instrumentaly and make full use of that. I cant stand rap for two reasons:

1. The mainstream stuff is the only stuff ive heard so its the only thing ive got to go on but it lacks any sort of skill in any department and i find it rather vulgar and crass.
2. I like listening to people sing that means stratching their vocals and using different notes for different lengths of time, rap in essance has nothing of the sort and so i can never truly like it because a rapers talants would always be second best to a singers.

If, however, any band wishes to go "prog rap" then good for them and i will give them a listen to find out what its like.

Well, it's time to answer some agressive comments:

Ty 1020 wrote:

And Ivan, what rap artists are you familar with? When you say that rap is fundamentally commercial, it leads me to believe that you've only heard the commercial rappers, none of whom I find to be representative of the genre as a whole. Underground rap isn't an exception at all, it represents the majority of music in the genre...

Read my whole post, I already said I listened rap in commercial radios, the same commercial radios in which I listened The Who, Yes, King Crimson and early Genesis (of course during the classic Rock hours) but I never heard a decent Rap song in any hour of the day.

But let me ask you a question. All the rap played in the radios is crap and represents at least 90% of the ghenre (if not more).

UNDRGROUND RAP? In your own words you're giving me the reason, undergrown means bellow the ground, hidden, almost not noticeable for most of the world, then by YOUR definition we're talking about an exception.

Ty 1020 wrote:

It's like me hearing We Can't Dance and Owner of a Lonely Heart on the radio and judging prog based on that kind of thing.

Owner of a Lonely Heart or We Can't dance are not progressive rock songs, so you can't judge Progressive Rock for something that it's not Progressive Rock!!!!

MC Hammer. Eminem, Vanilla Ice and all the crap played in the radios IS RAP, so I'm judging rap with  Rap examples. 

BePink theater wrote:

This is a completly ignorant statement. The essence of rap is actually the same as the essence of blues and gospel music. It comes straight form the heart.

In fiirst place, there are some rules of respect in the forums, if you read my posts I never called ignorant to any member talking in favor of Rap Prog or called their statements ignorant, so I ask the same treatment to myself, I believe I'm entitled to it because of my behaviour.

Then, again read my posts I'M TALKING ABOUT THE STRUCTURAL ESSENSE, I don't know if Rap comes from the heart or from the wallets of the artists, and to be honest I couldn't care less, all those words are cliché, the heart is only a bomb that pumps blood to the lungs, no sentiment or feeliing can come from there.

Music comes from the brain, Progressive Rock is an intelligent genre, because most musicians require a formal education, capacity, virtuosism, abbility to blend elements of different nature without sounding artificial, etc. Most Rap is not an intelligent genre, the vast musicians of this genre have no formation at al or maybe small, they don't try to blend elements or anything similar, their works don't improve, they just repeat a profitable formula, so I believe both genres are like water and oil.

Of course there's an emotional component, there's no Prog' without it, but Prog without feeling can exist, there ar a lot of very technicall but cold bands that sound well, but feeling alone is not enough for Progressive Rock, just check the background of most Prog musicians and he background of most rappers. 

May sound snobbish, but it's a fact. most soloist have classical or formal musical education, and each band has at least one of two members clasically trained.

MOST Rap is an easy way to earn millions for people that have a few or not any musical talent, most rappers are guys just speak fast with a repetitive rhythm and talk about the unfair system wearing a $ 10,000 gold chain on their necks.

BePink theater wrote:

Then you say that we shouldnt mix oil and water. What the fuc k do you think Progressive rock is?!

Classical Music, Rock, Jazz. Folk etc are genres based in melody, rhythm, structures and can blend perfectly, there are a lot of examples of Classical blending with Jazz, even berore Rock existed and Jazz is an ancester of Rock, so they can also blend perfectly.

MOST Rap is only the repetition ad nauseam of one single chord along 3 or 4 minutes so it has absolutely nothing in common with Rock, Classical or even Jazz.

BePink theater wrote:

Its people like you that slow down the revoloution of music. We cannot be closed minded if we want to continue prog.

You're wrong, the people that slow musical evolution are from the musical industry that spend millions (and earn more millions) on untalented Rappers. Hip Hoppers and Boys/Girls Band musicians, but refuse to take the risk to support talented musicians with a solid formation, and also those millions of musical listeners that don't care about the quality oif the musician but only about how well Eminem dress, how cute Britney is, how cool and accepted by society they feel when listening this pseudo music.

Be Pink Theater wrote:

Oh come on!  What were talking about would be a moderne compser using a gothic structure to incorperate and and new flavour to his moderne ideas. and that would be considered Moderne Classical

Again read my post, I'm talking about Gothic Classical musical structure, instruments, tempo, etc played by a musician born in the Modern era, not about a fusion of two eras, read before you answer.

Just as an example, Wagner was playing complex modern music in the beginnings of the Romantic era.

Despite he was a Romantic composer based on hisf birth certificate, his music is essentially modern and adventurous, who dared before to make a 16 hours work like The Ring of the Nibelungen?

Iván

 

Edited by ivan_2068

Most rap I've heard is really .

But there is some good hip hop music existing, it is just not on MTV or commercial radio stations.  Anyway, I think it could be possible to make progressive rap. I don't know if it could be considered Progressive Rock, but it would be intresting to hear it anyway.

Sorry

 I’m 28 years old;

Old fashioned person ; prefer symphonic rock;

I do like some of the rap music like ‘vanilla ice’ – ice ice baby

 

 

Rap is different than prog

 

 

if you have interasting prog rap music ; please let me know

i'm open to idea

all you prog fans, check out massive attack- mezzanine. i think it is progressive trip hop. really good album. check that out

maidenrulez wrote: Well rap is focusing more on rhytms and lyrics than on music...so no matter how it is presented it aint going to get good...

Why not? Why wouldn't it be possible for rap to focus on the music, too? Sure, current mainstream rap isn't musically interesting, but that doesn't mean the genre is fundamentally rooted in that ideal.

I don't understand why everone here is trying to pidgeon-hole rap and create artificial rules about what can and cannot be done within the genre. Progressive music is all about not following such rules; it's about thinking outside the box and trying new things. Why are so many of you acting as if that's impossible in this case? It doesn't make any sense to me.


Edited by Ty1020

mr.burns wrote: The hole rap thing is very different from prog,its more  about lyrics and rythm.Where prog is more about music.Rap is really a gang kind of thing,like sl*gging off other people.These music types are more of a opposite direction,like punk and prog.I would more say that rap is modern days punk.

Read: "I have no idea what I'm talking about."

Honestly. Listen to something other than mainstream crap like 50 Cent and all those guys and you'll see how wrong you are.

Where are this fabulopus bands that get absolutely no airplay, even King Crimson or the most complex Progressive bands got airplay in their moment and still they got.

Like I said, I've never heard prog on the radio. Just because the radio played good music 30 years ago doesn't mean it still does; you have to realize that the mainstream media today is much different than it was in the 70's, and it's very rare to hear anything good or interesting on the radio, especially when it comes to rap. In today's world, almost all good music has to be found elsewhere; if you want to hear interesting music, you'll have to look for it yourself, because you won't find it by watching MTV or listening to the radio - hence the term "underground." This is even more true with rap, a genre in which virtually none of the mainstream artists have any redeeming qualities. The majority of the rap community hates those "artists," but if you have no knowledge of that community, then you'd have no way of knowing that. Still, there are many more underground rap artists than there are mainstream ones. If anyone wants to hear them, though, they'll have to actively seek them out themselves, because that's just how the world of music works these days.

If great Rap is the bigest part of the genre, then mention at least 100 absolutely great Rap bands, even if you did so (what I doubt) it would be a minimal percentage of the rap bands. By simple logic your deduction is absurd, maybe not 90%, maybe 99% or 80% of the Rap is crap but really nobody here has ever mentioned more than two or three suposedly great Rap musicians in comparison whith the thousand of bands that recieve their chance on radios.

I can't list 100 great rap artists off the top of my head because I simply don't listen to that many to be able to. Even if I did, it would be extremely difficult. Would you be able to list 100 truly great prog artists right now off the top of your head? I seriously doubt it.

I think you've misunderstood me, also: I never said great rap was the biggest part of the genre. I simply meant that most rap artists are much more interesting than the ones you've heard and include better lyrics and lyricism, better instrumentation, etc.

There is no musical genre out there in which the majority of the artists are great, and to assume that there is would be absurd. The only exception to this rule I can think of is prog, because one of the conditions of the genre is that the music is interesting and/or complex. However, look at all the genres prog has been fused with in the past - rock, metal, jazz, avant-garde, and so on. In any of those genres, there are very few truly great bands, yet they've been successfully fused with prog, so I see no reason the same thing can't happen with rap. Anyways, the point I was trying to make was that most rap is interesting and much better than the rap you're familiar with, which is true.

You said it, in that case yopu wouldn't have heard a single progressive rock song you only heard POP played by former Progressive Rock bands, so you would be unable to make an opinion about Progressive rock, If a person have only heard MC Hammer or Eminem, that person has listened RAP, because want it or not, like or not that music is rap. So search for a better example.

But it's the exact same situation we have here; MC Hammer and 50 Cent are to rap what 90125 is to progressive rock. They are pop, and give as good a picture of rap as Owner of a Lonely Heart gives of prog. To judge the genre based on pop artists like that would simply be incorrect, just as it would be incorrect for me to judge prog based on We Can't Dance. Hopefully I've clarified that point a bit.

For the third time READ MY POSTS BEFOIRE YOIU ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!! I never said good Rap doesn't exist I admit the posibility of good rap (even when I haven't heard it). I said that I'm not an expert in rap. I said and I stand on my point of view that there's no chance for Progressive Rap. So again use valid arguments and don't come to me with technicaities, because I'm a lawyer and for that reason I can smell a technicality before I see it. BTW: Don't avoid parts of the posts and take words out of it's context, doesn't work.

Firstly, your assumptions are wrong so I'd like to appologize if I presented myself in such a way; I didn't mean to take anything out of context and I was in now way trying to twist your words. I suppose I just misunderstood you and didn't communicate my ideas as clearly as I would have liked to.

Anyways, looking at points 1 and 2, I'm glad you're aware that good rap is out there, but one thing I'd like to make clear is that it is not an exception in the genre at all. There are far more underground rap artists out there than there are mainstream ones; please just be aware of that.

As for point 3, that should be reason enough for you to not argue so strongly against it. You seem to really dislike the genre, and I don't blame you - if I'd only heard the terrible rap you have, I'd think the same thing. I did for years. However, once you really get into the genre, you'll find that rap can be a lot more interesting - both lyrically and musically - than you think. You may not like it, which is fine, but you'll at least see that it's not as simple or boring as you think.

Finally, would you please explain why you stand by that point of view? I know you've explained yourself numerous times, but your arguments have always been based on your lack of actual knowledge of the genre, so I'd like to hear why you think it's impossible without mentioning how bad the rap you've heard is. We all know it's bad, and we can all agree on that, but that fact is completely unrelated to the argument at hand.

As I said before: I don't understand why everone here is trying to pidgeon-hole rap and create artificial rules about what can and cannot be done within the genre. Progressive music is all about not following such rules; it's about thinking outside the box and trying new things. Why are so many of you acting as if that's impossible in this case? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Edited by Ty1020

This thread is going nowhere,progressive rapIf it ever where to happen,the chanse of it being progressive at all is zero.It would still be rap.What was the point with this thread anyway?

mr.burns wrote: This thread is going nowhere,progressive rapIf it ever where to happen,the chanse of it being progressive at all is zero.It would still be rap.What was the point with this thread anyway?

Why do you keep posting here? You're ignoring everything everyone is saying and re-stating your uninformed opinion over and over again without giving it any legitimate backing. Please, answer the questions I've been asking you... I'm really interested to see what you have to say.