We -need- progressive rap.

Imagine a hip-hop group that uses special instruments, experiments with electronics and effects (beyond the standard ones), uses different vocal techniques (i.e. improvisation and effects), makes long epic songs with plenty of inventive beats, rhythm changes and instrumental interludes.  It would still sound like hip hop (or trip-hop), but it would be like nothing that's ever been done.  it's possible..

Things are determined by their essense, if all about you're talking is added to Rap or Hip Hop then it would go against Rap or Hip Hop essence and would be something different.

If a modern Classical Composer starts playing with Gothic Classical instruments, Gothic tempo and Gothic structure he will cease to be modern, his music will be Classical Gothic done today but would never be considered Modern Classical.

Iván

Red Hot Chili Peppers and Faith No More come
close!

Red Hots mix some rap style lyrics that are both
obscure and intelligent(in a narcotic/sex majik kinda
way, off kilter guitar and a hell of a groove or
meaningful mellow songs that border on paisley and
colors.

Faith have the ability to create an epic and are
intelligent at times and know how to kill!
Even if it aint pure prog or pure rap it is about as
good as intelligent/thash as the record companies
will allow.

Remember if we pay you, we own you!
Dont blame the musician, blame society,
government and big business! Remember there are
enough musicians/minds in the world to produce
anything you want to hear only government/big
business can deny you of that pleasure. Seems like
we fought this war in the 70's and lost to the gay nazi
militia movement!




blah, blah, bawh

Edited by DallasBryan

Golden Spiral wrote:

some rather closed-minded opinions coming in here....

Why closed minded?

I judge Rap by the general rule, by the 100% of rap I listened, I know people always talk about some great obscure Rap bands, but nobody can create a sub-genre based in exceptions.

The  essense of Rap is to be a mainly vocal style, created to be repetitive and absolutely commercial.

There may be good rap? I don't know, not an expert but it's possible.

Can I consider both genres can blend? No, a rap band that assumes Prog structure would cease to be Rap, in Rap the virtuosism of the musicians is not important (again there may be exceptions) but in Progressive Rock it's esential.

I can listen and enjoy many genres of music but I don't find the need to try to mix water and oil when we know both have different densities (structure) and it's impossible. If you like Rap, OK, enjoy it, but don't try to convince people it can blend with Progressive Rock as a genre.

And much less call closed minded to the ones that have been fans of an almost underground and unpopular genre for decades, listening something as Prog Rock that 99% of the people hate and/or ignore is far from being close minded.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

greenback wrote: Man Overboard wrote: At the very least, it would be insanely awesome if there was a single -album- that had the intention of fusing prog with rap...  full band, tons of ambition...  it could be amazing.  40 minutes of something that would surprise the hell out of everyone.   you'll have to work EXTREMELY hard to convince me!

Don't even try it with me, both genres are simply not compatible. Some rap (that I heven't heard yet) may be interesting, but no way I could ever believe in it.

Iván

gdub411 wrote: Actually it has been done. Burnt Noodle raps in one of their songs with very experimental music going on in the backround

Hmm, have heard the name but have never heard their stuff. I certainly will check it out now.

s1ipp3ry wrote: I cant stand rap of any kind ... if prog goes rap I`m not going to consider it prog no matter what

Free your mind sl1pp3ry, and your ass will follow.

Don't discount an entire genre on the crap you hear on the radio, there really is good hip-hop out there. Whether it can be prog...heh, even I don't know yet. But you never can tell what the future brings...

I disagree with anyone who generalizes rap, just as anyone generalizes prog..doesn't make sense and usually means the person talking doesn't really have much knowledge about the genre they are dissing (hey, look, I used a rap term!).

Public Enemy, one of the best rap bands ever, had a ton of ingenuity and inventiveness, and of course, was probably one of the most socially aware and intelligent. De La Soul sampled everyone from Hall and Oates to the Turtles to Black Sabbath. It all depends on what they kids grew up listening to. De La Soul listened to a lot of mainstream rock growing up, so they sampled much of that. Michael Franti/Spearhead make songs that remind you of Prince, Sly Stone, and even Devo, because he listened and listens to a very wide variety of music. I have heard several of these artists mention prog bands in admiration.

Dunno if the two genres can mix, but anything is possible.

Man Overboard wrote: I'm listening to the new Sage Francis...  it's -so- -close-...  tons of creative musical elements, lots of time changes, insanely intelligent lyrics...  if we could just take that -next- -step-... ...I despise mainstream rap, but there's underground stuff that's seriously great.  If we could combine it with prog, I'd embrace it.

Sage Francis is awesome! There is a ton of great stuff in the undereground rap scene. Many of these artists embrace the same musical ethos displayed by prog bands. If you're at all interested in exploring this scene, artists to look for include: Aesop Rock, Immortal Technique, Eyedea & Abilities, Blueprint, Atmosphere, Swollen Members, Greyskul, Lyrics Born, Latyrx, DJ Format, Jurassic 5, Digable Planets, etc... For some stuff in the same genre but more instumental, check out DJ Shadow and RJD2. For great remixers try DJ Andy Smith, Kruder & Dorfmiester, and Prodigy's Liam Howlett. Liam Howlett actually includes some prog in his beats like Babe Ruth.

My point is: Even in the world of Hip-Hop, there are folks out there who subscribe to the prog ethos of challenging and forward looking music.

BTW Man Overboard, did you catch the beat from track 3 Locksmith is actually Romeo & Juliet, I'm not sure if its based on ELP's version, but its close.


Edited by Nipsey88

By "progressive rap," do you mean rap that does new and innovative things with the genre, or just rap that incorporates elements of prog rock? Personally, I'd love to see either, or a combination of the two.

There is a hip hop band from Pittsburgh, PA called BEAM who play entirely improvisational hip hop.  They consist of a vocalist, turntablist, drummer, upright bassist, and "space" bass.  The space bassist has an effects rack about 4 feet high and he just experiments with different sounds while the band plays.  They usually play really dark, smoky jazz clubs and bars late at night and just flow for hours on end without stopping and they never play together except when they play shows.  it is a really impressive live show to see.

prog?  probably not... but its on the way.