Prog Metal: Organizing the categories

Here is a perfect example of why albums should be categorized as well as the artist.  I found this recent review for OPETH's Ghost Reveries:

"After the wonderful Damnation they came with this… garbage. This is the most weird CD I ever heard. Decent music mixed with the worse putrefied vocals you can ever expect from a band. The vocals are so annoying that I just could not finish listening to the songs. I just hope this is not a new trend in terms of “prog”. It surprises me how many fans gave 5 stars to this cd. I only gave 1 star because I can’t give ZERO ! Can someone sing along?"

Obviously, this fella was not aware that OPETH is a PROGRESSIVE DEATH METAL BAND as he was expecting another "Damnation" release, but everybody familiar with the band knows that they are first and foremost a PROGRESSIVE DEATH Metal Band.  So having the tag "progressive metal" under the album cover is misleading the average listener who is only looking for quick information about an album into thinking that this is something it obviously is NOT.

On another note, placing ADAGIO under Progressive Power Metal is also very lisleading when you consider that the music of ADAGIO is accompanied by a full orchestra...it is Progressive Symphonic! 

I understand that attempting to categorize all the bands in their respective subcategories is always going to be difficult and that everybody is not always going to agree, but this argument gives even more reason to categorize the album as well.    

         Green = " bands likely to be accepted to the archives "

• Jason Becker
• Death
• Into Eternity
• Edge of Sanity
• Solefald
• Buckethead
• Luca Turilli

 these are bands that IMO should be in the archives

• Aletheian
  Extreme
• Altera Enigma  
• Metal Fusion
• Behind the Curtain
  Experimental
• Believer
  Technical
• Between the Buried and Me
  Extreme
• Beyond Twilight
  Dark Prog. Metal
• Braindance
  Gothic Metal
• Coprofago
  Extreme
• Coroner
  Progressive Thrash
• Darkstar
  Gothic Metal  
• Extol
  Extreme
• Fleurety
  Experimental
• Frantic Bleep
  Experimental
• Gorguts
  Extreme/Technical
• Ron Jarzombek
  Technical
• Karaboudian
  Experimental
• Kohllapse
  Dark
• Lengsel
  Progressive Black
• Linear Sphere
  Extreme Experimental
• Love History
  Avant-Garde
• Lykathea Aflame
  Extreme
• Machinations of Dementia
  Experimental/Technical
• Martyr
  Extreme
• Mirador
  Dark
• Nevermore
  Power Metal
• Pan-Thy-Monium
  Extreme
• Red Tide
• Sanctifica
  Extreme
• Soul Cages
• Strapping Young Lad
  Extreme
• Symbyosis
  Experimental/Extreme
• Theocracy
  Power Metal
• Theory in Practice
  Extreme
• Tiamat
  Dark
• Twisted into Form
  Technical
• Unexpect >
  Symphonic Black
• Vintersorg
  Extreme/Symphonic
• Virgin Black
  Gothic Metal
• When Day Descends
  Experimental

what do you guys think of this song , its progressive jazz  metal

http://www.acrimonia.net/music/parasite/AcrimoniA-Dreams.mp3

Sorry for sounding like a broken record...

Here's another band that should be added:

PYRAMAZE - Melancholy Beast (Progressive Metal) 

You'll find a few samples here:

http://www.pyramaze.com/samples.asp

Kohllapse wrote: Great band, but arent they power metal ?

No, progressive metal...just listen to a few of their songs and you'll quickly come to the same conclusion.  Besides, Masterplan is Power Metal and they are included on Prog Archives!  Masterplan have more in common with Edguy than Pyramaze. 

Also, Pyramaze are included as a progressive metal band on the following music sites:  Dutch Progressive Rock Page, Rock Report, Tartarean Desire and on Transcending the Mundane.

I agree with Mike that Prog Metal is a sub genre of Metal rather than a sub genre of Prog. I find 95% of Prog metal that i have heard difficult to warm too and often wonder what it is doing on this site, but i suppose it is just a matter of taste. What rankles with me however is that Metal is on here but its polar opposite Pop or alt rock is badly dealt with. If prog metal is a sub genre of metal then surely we can start including some of the more progressive acts from the alt scene and inc;lude them as one group.

For example The Church are in but Echo and the bunnymen are out. Sigur Ros is in but Bjork is out. Porcupine Tree are in but Radiohead are considered fringe. Talk Talk made it but Cocteau Twins are considered ambient pop by some critic on here. It would be interesting to expand prog related and include a lot more bands of interest at the poppier end or in the interest of balance  just delete Prog Metal completely

AfanSpur wrote: I agree with Mike that Prog Metal is a sub genre of Metal rather than a sub genre of Prog. I find 95% of Prog metal that i have heard difficult to warm too and often wonder what it is doing on this site, but i suppose it is just a matter of taste. What rankles with me however is that Metal is on here but its polar opposite Pop or alt rock is badly dealt with. If prog metal is a sub genre of metal then surely we can start including some of the more progressive acts from the alt scene and inc;lude them as one group. For example The Church are in but Echo and the bunnymen are out. Sigur Ros is in but Bjork is out. Porcupine Tree are in but Radiohead are considered fringe. Talk Talk made it but Cocteau Twins are considered ambient pop by some critic on here. It would be interesting to expand prog related and include a lot more bands of interest at the poppier end or in the interest of balance  just delete Prog Metal completely

Are you really suggesting that if we dont expand on prog related, then we should delete prog metal, along with some of the most important prog bands of the modern era. May I remind you that that would include getting rid of the likes of Dream Theater, Symphony X, Ayreon and others. It has also been stated by the administraters that any band in this site should be here under its own right and not because band X is in here. If you feel that a band belongs here then try and submit them and see if they are accepted. 

Noel Coward wrote: I think its a tad pedantic trying to pigeonhole bands to such a degree - surely it will limit and stifle bands themselves....the best bands change genres and styles constantly

I belive this has already been discused from page 1 to about 20 and has been agread that, although not admitedly the best solution, this is the best that can be done will the site maintaines its current format.

AfanSpur wrote: No seriously i agree i am babbling and have not made a good argument. My dislike of Prog Metal has coloured my comments and I have been found wanting.The heaviest style i have liked is Rush and I mainly stick to the Symphonic Art end of Prog.I bought damnation and found it quite good if a liitle samey. I then bought Black water park and found it faintly Ridiculous, I mean grown men growling, whatever next. Ironically i liked the drapery falls as it is  a great tune a really good piece of prog with Cocteau Twins style guitars at the beginning. The growling is superfluous in my opinion.

Listen to Captain Beefheart or Tom Waits. Odd vocals are not limited to Metal, and if you think that growling is childish, that is your opinion. Please keep in mind that a LOT of people disagree with that, and they're not all children.

AfanSpur wrote: I used to follow Iron Maiden and Sabbath when i was teenager and did what i thought was the normal thing to do which was to grow out of them. I have always considered Metal a teenage thing.

That's the problem: In the above sentences you voice an opinion, which is perfectly valid. In other posts you talk like you are the master and Prog Metal fans like me are the pupils who need to grow up and have a lot to learn about music.

AfanSpur wrote: Now i know i have just insulted thousands on here, but the sound of grown men screaming or growling and /or headbanging.....well you make your mind up but to me it is hardly cutting edge stuff or even mature. Now if you were to delete Prog Metal then i would support that

 It takes more to insult me than to just say that Metal is for children, or that growling sucks. It's just stereotype "prog traditionalists" behavior, seen it a thousand times (literally).

I hope I don't insult you when I say: I don't care about your opinion on Prog Metal.

No problem - and thanks! BTW: You still haven't answered my question (I quoted the post). I'm curious what you mean by "polar opposite" - In a way Deadwing even combines those polar opposites (Alt. Rock and Prog Metal).

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ I don't understand why you consider "Pop or Alt Rock" the "polar opposite" of Prog Metal ... could you explain that? There are quite a few Alternative Rock bands which use metal elements, and some Metal bands who use alternative/independent (whatever you call it) elements.