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avestin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
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After following (still do actually) the thread by Proglover about musical form, I started wondering whether I am not missing anything or not fully appreciating the music I listen to due to lack of musical education. I don't mean I don't enjoy it, get ecstatic or feel pleasure when listening to music I love. I just wonder, could I have an even better listening experience to music as someone who is trained and/or taught in the musical arts. I learned to play the piano for 7 years but I don't feel it has given me any supplemental value when hearing music. I do know, however, to appreciate good playing and virtuosity. Tell us what is your take on this, musicians and non-musicians. |
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Space Dimentia ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 25 2005 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 440 |
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Im a musicain, I paly guitar in my prog-rock band Equinox but I dont have any musical training, I just pour through guitar mags and tabs, and just do a lot of improvising, I also sing in choir but I cant read music. I dont personally think you need to have a musical ear or be musically trained to such a high degree as John Petrucci or Rick Wakeman. If you enjoy it just continue listening to it and admire it all including the virtuoso bits for waht they are, yes there are some who are msuically trained and can enjoy it for its musical merits but most others cant. So mate dont worry about it, if you enjoy it just keep listening to it, and enjoy it for what it is, as an all round piece of music.
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Prog is music for the mind
Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
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Genesisprog ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 14 2005 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I had some piano lessons and guitar lessons.Quire singings.Music theory classes
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Frank Zappa,Pink Floyd,Yes,Genesis,Rush,King Crimson,Jethro Tull,E.L.P,Rick Wakeman -They have one similarity- I Love Them all !
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avestin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
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Thanx for your words. I'm just curious as to what is it that musicians (or any other musically trained person) hears and enjoys when they hear the music they love if there is even such a thing, that is in addition to :plainly" enjoying the music. Genesisprog, did your lessons change in any way the way you listen to music? |
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Lindsay Lohan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: May 25 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
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Well if your musician then you perhaps take a more particular notice to the tecniques and solos of the musicians...but i dont think you appreciate it more
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avestin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
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So there is only a theoretical side to it and nothing that adds to pleasure from the music, yes? |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21598 |
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I studied the electric organ (2 manuals + bass pedals) for about 4 years (age 9-13) ... then I took guitar lessons for another 5 years (age 13-18).
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avestin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
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lunaticviolist ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 17 2005 Status: Offline Points: 478 |
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I don't think it is necessary to have an education in music in order to appreciate good music. In fact, I've heard that people who have perfect pitch (can sing any note on command) complain about slight intonation problems in music, and thus stop enjoying certain music. I do recommend learning some music theory, however, simply because it is so fascinating.
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goose ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
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Perfect pitch is entirely unrelated to an education in music, though
![]() Learning about music (not only learning an instrument, but that, too) can help with listening to some music, and generally not stop you enjoying music you did while blissfully unaware - unless you're impressionable to base your musical taste on the teachings of others. So, broadly, I don't see how learning about music can give anything but a more developed taste ![]() Edited by goose |
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avestin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 18 2005 Status: Offline Points: 12625 |
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Not a more developed taste, but an extra value or extra pleasure from what you hear. |
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Kingkay ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() Joined: January 30 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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i think music is just like any other artform. the more you understand it, the more you appreciate it.
most people don't like complicated music because they don't understand it, so education could help them to enjoy it. i have 11years experience with recorder, 4years with keyboards and 2 years with saxophone, but i'm not really sure if that helped me though :P |
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GoldenSpiral ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 27 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3839 |
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I think being able to count in 9/8 time makes me appreciate Apocalypse
in 9/8 a bit more. knowing what's going one definitely helps you
appreciate music. You have to know what a time signature change
is before you can notice how it subtly makes the music more interesting.
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Saviorts ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: January 29 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Hey dude,
Though I'm slightly educated in music (self-taught celtic music, played for about three years) I don't think it necessarily has changed my pleasure in listening. Plus the more music you listen and expose yourself to the more you learn about it. If you read books you'll become a better writer, I believe the same goes with music. You might not understand all the musical terminology that a lot of people sling around, but if it was explained in plain english(or whatever your native tongue may be) you'd probably understand just about any kind of concept right away. I do notice that I pay more attention to instruments and singing voices that match what I play or am interested in playing, but that doesn't really dictate how I listen to a song. Just gaining more experience listening to music (and watching music being played) can really enhance your listening pleasure. Formal musical education is just music put into a more visually recognizable substance with a more conrete scheme of labels. It just makes things easier, but I wouldn't say better. cheers ![]() |
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For the love of goldens.
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Pafnutij ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: October 02 2005 Location: Russian Federation Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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I never took lessons or anything, but i learned some theory and ear-training , and at this point i find that music where i cant figure out what is being played (in terms of chords, scales and stuf) captures my attention far better than simple music where i cant hear what they play.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I have had no musical education, and despite having played the drums in a few bands I dont consider myself a musician. That said, I love music and have to listen to it every day or else I feel something very important is missing from my day! I can hear whether a bass line is technical or not. I can hear whether and drummer is good or not. I ca count time signatures, but most importanly I can 'feel' music, and thats what music is there for; to be felt. I dont see how a formal music education would enhance my appreciation of music. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Certif1ed ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
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I don't think that perfect pitch is necessarily a memory skill - I don't have a fantastic memory, but I do have perfect pitch. Relative pitch is a memory skill, as you need to learn it and not forget the relative sounds of intervals to work the notes out. With perfect pitch, you just hear a note and know what it is - there's no explanation - you just know. This is, of course, 100% provable, and a favourite party trick of mine when I was younger. A musical education is not necessary to enjoy music - that's part of the point of it to some degree. On the other hand, if you do have it, it's like having a literary education - you understand more of what the author is doing and the sources he quotes from. Without a solid literary education, you'd have real problems appreciating say, "Ulysses" by Joyce - but you could still form an opinion on it. It just wouldn't be an educated opinion. The same with music. Anyone can enjoy Beethoven's 5th, but if you've studied music generally, and that particular work in depth, you'll understand the compositional pyrotechnics and virtuosity that Beethoven displayed much better. A good example of how an education can help you to understand music better is Arnold Schoenberg's "Pierrot Lunaire". To most non-educated people, it sounds like a complete racket - but I'd wager that a lot of proggers would enjoy it - click this link (Note that you'll need Quicktime in order to hear it - if you have problems with this, I can help): http://www.colleges.org/techcenter/music/modules/pierrot/200 3rec.html
For me, though, as a musically "educated" person (I'm not a professor or anything fancy), the delights are in the choices I have. I can simply switch off and listen, and be transported to wherever the music takes me, or I can rip the playing and compositional techniques to shreds and really enjoy being delighted at what the musicians have come up with - and feel like I've gained an insight into their creation process. It's almost like becoming a member of the band for a while. |
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Space Dimentia ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 25 2005 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 440 |
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I still dont know, I can see the merits of being musically trained to enjoy prog because of the scales, modes, chords, lyrics they use but I persoanlly dont think its important, I play guitar but have not been though any serious music training (even though on a personal level would like to) if you enjoy it kep listening, I also sing in a local ammature choir and we get to sing some of the most gorgous choral pieces written but I know sweet fa about it on musical terms (I cant read music) but I do know of its historical importance (im a second year history student), but I digress, with prog and musical education like I said I personally dont beileve that its all that important if you enjoy it keep it up, plus I think most of us listenin to it because it satisfys that side of the brain (or in our geeky-selves all of our brain lol) that thinks differently to the rest and is attracted to music that isn't always in 4/4 time.
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Prog is music for the mind
Hear your Orphaned child! Check out my bands myspace site: www.myspace.com/equinox17 |
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goose ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
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Certif1ed ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
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I've always found it to be adaptable - it's painful if a voice is out of tune with other voices, but when pitches are in tune relative to each other, there's no reason why A has to be 440Hz and I don't get confused. It gets tricky, the closer it gets to the semitone above or below, but my internal reference never seems to change - and transposition isn't hard. If asked to sing an A aloud, I'm generally slightly flat - unless the instrument is also slightly flat. I couldn't tell you if a played pitch was slightly flat or slightly sharp - so it's not quite the same thing as the colour memory, but to use the analogy, I'd know if it was blue. If I had studied anatomy or physiology or even psychology or something, then maybe I'd find it easier to accept as memory-related - but it's not something I've ever had to try to remember, even when I haven't used it for a while. Maybe it treats different people differently |
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