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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:39

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

^ Mike, keep the "Extreme" label. That's what that kind of metal is called overall - "Extreme metal" , which is a label for Black / Death / Grind etc. bands.

I think that Death (the band) is one of the key bands of the genre. They're borderline prog though, although they're often misjudged because of the band name and their early albums. But they're no doubt an agressive band, and I totally understand why people might be offended by them. But - progressive nonetheless.
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Kohllapse View Drop Down
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:40

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

^ Mike, keep the "Extreme" label. That's what that kind of metal is called overall - "Extreme metal" , which is a label for Black / Death / Grind etc. bands.

yeah I agree , also you could have "Technical"

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:44

^ Bands whose foremost attribute is "technical" are currently in the Experimental genre, "Extreme" if the band is also based on an agressive metal genre. Having bands like Spiral Architect and The Gathering in one genre is not perfect, I know. But I really wouldn't want to have 5 genres. And there is also a great bandwidth of artists in the RIO/Avant-Prog genre ...

I wouldn't want to put bands like Power of Omens or Spiral Architect into the Extreme category with bands like DEP or Cynic ...
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Progzilla View Drop Down
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Points: 206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:44
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

One problem that I do see about the current categories is that both red columns contain experimental bands. The idea was to have one category for really brutal and agressive bands - they are considered to be offensive by many people who otherwise don't mind overly technical or highly experimental bands.

That is why even extremely technical bands are not in the Extreme genre ... maybe we need another name for the Extreme genre. "Agressive Prog Metal" or "Brutal Prog Metal" are not suitable though, although they perfectly represent what I have in mind.

Any suggestions?


I took me a while to understand this (now it makes perfect sence that Spastic Inc is not in extreme). Maybe you could remove the technicality reference in the description of the extreme category, and in some way include it in the experimental cateogry description instead?

Agressive Progressive Metal sound hilarious, but I know what you mean, that's basically what the extreme category is about!
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Logos View Drop Down
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Points: 2383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:48
Spiral Architect is in no way Extreme prog metal , IMO. It's Experimental, more accurately Technical, to use the term Kohllapse coined.

But how about Opeth?
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:52
^ thanks for reminding me Progzilla, I thought I had already made those changes.
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Points: 2383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:52
Also, Mike and others, listen to this sample mp3 of Solefald , http://mp3.centurymedia.com/Solefald_MontBlancProvidenceCrow _InHarmoniaUniversali.mp3 .

It's definitely prog metal, but is it Experimental, Power or even something else? My first thought is Experimental, really.
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:55

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Spiral Architect is in no way Extreme prog metal , IMO. It's Experimental, more accurately Technical, to use the term Kohllapse coined.

But how about Opeth?
  I didnt coin the term it is what the bands like WATCHTOWER,SPIRAL ARCHITECT,EXTOL,ABSURD2,SPASTIC INK,

 etc are usually called. but thanks for the credit



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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 08:58

Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Spiral Architect is in no way Extreme prog metal , IMO. It's Experimental, more accurately Technical, to use the term Kohllapse coined.

But how about Opeth?

Spiral Architect are in the Experimental category.

Opeth: They may seem extreme at first, and maybe their first three albums really are, but they are a really unusual band. If you consider their music and forget about the growling for a moment, what's left is not really that extreme anymore. The music is much less agressive than for example Atheist, DEP or Meshuggah. They're even borderline to symphonic, but they're not melodic (polyphonic) enough. They're IMO a really good example of a band which is different on first, second or even third impression.
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Points: 206 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:01
Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

Also, Mike and others, listen to this sample mp3 of Solefald , http://mp3.centurymedia.com/Solefald_MontBlancProvidenceCrow _InHarmoniaUniversali.mp3 .

It's definitely prog metal, but is it Experimental, Power or even something else? My first thought is Experimental, really.


Hmm, well I wouldn't say definitely prog, but it has some prog elements. It seems to be a post-black band, so extreme is more suitable IMO. How do the earlier albums sound?
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:07

Bands to add to the chart

EXTOL-

ABSURD2-Experimental

LENGSEL- Extreme

CORONER- Extreme

BEHIND THE CURTAIN- Avant/Experimental

THEOCRACY -"Power prog"
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:09

Logos: It is better to link to the page that contains the samples:

http://www.centurymedia.com/index2.htm

I added them to the Extreme category, thanks!

They have some epic passages as well, but I guess their Black-ish passages are pretty dominant. Let's see if there are more opinions!
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:11

 

Bands to add to the chart

EXTOL- (Extreme)

http://mp4.centurymedia.com/audio/extol_blueprint_pearl.mp3

http://mp3.centurymedia.com/extol_graceforseuccession_synerg y.mp3

http://www.undeceived.net/mp3/emb_128.m3u

ABSURD2- (Experimental)

http://www.blastbeats.com/images/product/13_44_36_Artist%20- %20Track%2002.mp3

LENGSEL-  (Extreme) - http://www.blacksun.se/lengsel/audio/revival.mp3

CORONER- (Extreme) http://metalsurge.tripod.com/coroner/

BEHIND THE CURTAIN- (Avant/Experimental) http://www.behindthecurtain.dk/

THEOCRACY -"Power prog" http://www.theocracymusic.com/discography.php

BRAINDANCE (gothic)

http://progressivedarkwave.com/brainsounds.htm

VIRGIN BLACK (Orchestral/Gothic/Doom)

http://www.virginblack.com/downloads.html

ALTERA ENIGMA (Experimental)

http://www.alteraenigma.com/

http://www.audiostreet.net/artist.aspx?artistid=6968



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Tristan Mulders View Drop Down
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:17
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

But I really wouldn't want to have 5 genres. And there is also a great bandwidth of artists in the RIO/Avant-Prog genre ...

Just keep the ones you have and there will be only 4 and I think these four got the names with should keep

* Symphonic (Prog) Metal (lose the "prog" part and it sounds better + "symphonic" is often a different way of saying that you mean "progressive") (And have the ones classified as "more neo" maybe called "Neo Symphonic Metal" and the others as Symphonic Metal?)

* Experimental Prog Metal (Maybe just Avant/Experimental Metal, instead of experimental prog metal)

* Heavy Prog Metal (Let this one remain the way it is now )

* Extreme Prog Metal (This one is also good as it is )

 

Those will cover everything methinks :)

 

Also I like the thing about judging the bands we doubt by their most respected albums .

 

One more bandsuggestion. Dark Suns is a more heavy and complex version of Pain of Salvation (that's even the reason why they've toured together) and they're more into symphonic textures than into space rock-tendencies, what do you think? I suggest to move it to Symphonic (Prog) Metal under thet "more symphonic category"
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Points: 1063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:22

BRAINDANCE (gothic)

http://progressivedarkwave.com/brainsounds.htm

VIRGIN BLACK (Orchestral/Gothic/Doom)

http://www.virginblack.com/downloads.html

 
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Tristan Mulders View Drop Down
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:23

Oh, with the new description of Extreme metal, I think Devin Townsend should be moved to. (Did also think of that before the new description). Most of his music is so agressive that people don't listen to it (Just listen to Earth Day). I'm not saying it is bad music (I love Accelerated Evolution and the latter song), but it is Extreme and not Avant/Experimental (although he does experiment, but not in a intergenre way, yes I know his music got known as thrash metal pop songs)

 

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:28

Dark Suns: I've been at their show (Dark Suns + Pain of Salvation) last month and I'm afraid that IMO Dark Suns are not nearly as complex as Pain of Salvation. But they're quite unusual - like The Gathering they're often labeled as a Gothic Metal band, but I would rather say that they're Doom based but really found their own style. Quite unusual, not complex and balanced enough for Symphonic IMO.

About Symphonic Metal as a genre name: Unfortunately this is already "occupied":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphonic_metal

There is a big difference between a band like Rhapsody (Symphonic Metal) and Pain of Salvation (Symphonic Prog Metal). Unfortunately the meaning of the labels cannot be derived directly from the words ... we'll have to clarify in the genre definition which is which. I know it is confusing ...

 
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:32
Originally posted by king16 king16 wrote:

Oh, with the new description of Extreme metal, I think Devin Townsend should be moved to. (Did also think of that before the new description). Most of his music is so agressive that people don't listen to it (Just listen to Earth Day). I'm not saying it is bad music (I love Accelerated Evolution and the latter song), but it is Extreme and not Avant/Experimental (although he does experiment, but not in a intergenre way, yes I know his music got known as thrash metal pop songs)

Your thoughts?

No, this is a similar problem like Opeth. His music is not agressive - and his growls, if the vocals can be called that, are very melodic. If you directly compare the music of his solo albums with SYL, you'll see what I mean. SYL should be added IMO, and I added them - at least to my table.

All that is only my opinion - of course I know that Devin Townsend is a controversial artist.
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Points: 1723 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:36
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

No, this is a similar problem like Opeth. His music is not agressive - and his growls, if the vocals can be called that, are very melodic. If you directly compare the music of his solo albums with SYL, you'll see what I mean. SYL should be added IMO, and I added them - at least to my table.

All that is only my opinion - of course I know that Devin Townsend is a controversial artist.

I get your point, his vocals are unique (especially the rapid screams which he does sometimes, but he can sing nice too) and it is totally different from SYL (from the few songs that I've heard).
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21188 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2005 at 09:41

Devin Townsend Band vs. Strapping Young Lad is like Dr. Jekyll vs. Mr. Hyde ... I can't wait to find out what Devin's new album will be like. Strapping Young Lad - Alien was already a step towards the epic DTB sound ... maybe his new solo album will also be a Fusion of those two worlds.
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