What happens with maiden?

Useful_Idiot wrote: As Garion already mentioned, Maiden is still under conisderation.  It's a tough call, there's no question that they've influenced tons of prog-metal bands.  My vote is against them though, there are countless other influential metal bands who've had some very proggy moments despite being far from prog bands.  If we add Maiden, it opens the door for tons of other non-prog metal bands.

It should be the other way round ... Prog Related (aka Prog Influenced) should be for bands that were influenced by prog, not the other way round. Iron Maiden influenced many other metal bands, including progressive ones. But I think they always influenced the metal side of those bands ... not the progressive aspects.

Small prog influeces... DIO is more prog... Ow God, I give up...

Btw... The beatles are god damn proto prog!...

I'm sure he did, although I never heard/read that interview - and Maiden would have had an effect on many metal bands of the time - it was all new back then. However, effect and influence are different things.

 and a reason why it does not sound like maiden is because metallica messed it up trying to show the world how fast they can riff their gutiars and how agressive they can sound

No, Metallica brought the thrash technique to the world - it's not messed up, it's inspired and brilliant. It's not just about the speed - there were many bands that were faster. It's about the buzz that is created that sets up harmonics that create a sound beyond the individual sounds. If thrash is so messed up, how come nearly every Metal band on the planet uses the technique these days?

and the main reason why you dont want maiden to be added is basically because you seem to like metallica, dio and rainbow over maiden and that is fine but you cant use that to back up your argument why it is not progressive.

That is not the reason, that is your assumption. I am merely making points.

I am not using my opinion to back my argument up - try concentrating on the technical facts that I am using and not getting diverted into what you think I'm saying.

And comparing it to ac/dc shows what a complete moron you are

It doesn't, actually. There are many things that could show what a moron I am, but that was not one of them.

Obviously rainbow had about two albums with dio before they went totally 80's synth pop and also DIO's song structure is just plain heavy metal as done by judas priest.

Hmm. You don't know much about this do you?

All the maiden songs sound the same eh? Ah ok have you heard

Prodigal Son

Blood Brothers

Sign Of the Cross

The Unbelivier

Seventh son of a seventh son

Genghis Khan

Dance Of death

To tame a land

Revelations

Hooks in you

Deja Vu

Another Life

Gangland

Transylvania

Wastin love

Montesegur

Dream of mirrors

The Nomad

Judgement of heaven

How the f**k can you say that these songs sound the same?  

The underlying style is the same. The instrumentation is the same. The approach to song writing is the same and the structures are the same. That's how I can say they sound very similar!

I dont care how much metallica is your favorite band...they where not the first PROG METAL BAND ON THE SCENE REMEMBER THAT YOU LITTLE TWAT

No need to resort to insults.

And I'm not little.

I'm 6'4"

And I don't care if Iron Maiden is your favourite band... they were not the first prog metal band on the scene remember that...

its funny that mikeenregalia thinks KAMELOT and QUEENSRYCHE and PORCUPINE TREE to be VERY progressive while maiden is not at all progressive...

Are Kamelot that wierd metal band that do a kind of symphonic rock with lots of brass, trying to sound kind of Crusaderish? I note they describe their music as Progressive Metal - and I doubt they'd lie.

Queensryche probably are the first prog metal band, so that's a fair comment from Mike.

Porcupine Tree likewise are held by many to be a prog band - I'm working my way through their catalogue, and so far I don't hear much evidence - but they do sound a bit like a cross between "h" Marillion and Radiohead in many places, so that's a good starting point.

and certified YOU turned to insults by comparing the crap that is ac/dc to maiden by saying they where just as progressive.

I beg to differ - that is not an insult.

AC/DC are a fantastic, some might say legendary rock band - some of their material is classic rock of the highest order, and the track "Let There Be Rock" is epic. Have you ever seen them live? Do you know all of their albums that you can make such a sweeping criticism?

And where in this thread did I ever say that AC/DC are as progressive as Iron Maiden?

And songs like I surrender. since you been gone and street of dreams leave no doubt that Rainbow is a very progressive band i can agree with that

You really don't know very much about Rainbow, do you? Ronnie James Dio didn't sing on those tracks.

I don't think much of "Running Free", "Run To The Hills" or "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter" as prog rock either, so touche!

However, what about Stargazer?

And i dont care to ask what ye rates as the first prog metal band as im sure you are a metallica fanboy wich thinks ST.ANGER is the biggest prog-masterpiece since close to the edge.

You think what you like. It's not true, but if it makes you happy, then that's fine. If you actually read what I said earlier, you would have noted that... never mind.

And there are certainly more power-metalish prog-metal bands on this page than there are thrash-metalish prog metal bands on the site.

Your point being?  

And yes maiden uses BASS,DRUMS,GUITARS on all the tracks so i can agree that it sounds exactly the same...they should have changed instruments to TRUMPETS,SAXOPHONES and BAGPIPES so that it would not all sound the same

Are you saying that they're not very progressive, then?

No i dont care to discuss with neither Mikeenregalia or the metallica fanboy as their opinions are to silly to be discussed...and afterall i dont think mikeenregalia has said ONE thing that i can agree with on this forum

You don't have to agree with people's opinions - but you should respect the elegant way Mike puts his arguments, his respect for the people he is discussing music with, and his deep knowledge of Metal as a genre and the musicians that play it.

I note you haven't disputed any of my technical points concerning Metallica - I guess that counts as a victory to me on that debate then.

Personally I think it's silly to just toss names at people, rather than think about the topic at hand and discuss the MUSIC.

But that's just me.

maidenrulez wrote: its funny that mikeenregalia thinks KAMELOT and QUEENSRYCHE and PORCUPINE TREE to be VERY progressive while maiden is not at all progressive... and certified YOU turned to insults by comparing the crap that is ac/dc to maiden by saying they where just as progressive. And songs like I surrender. since you been gone and street of dreams leave no doubt that Rainbow is a very progressive band i can agree with that And i dont care to ask what ye rates as the first prog metal band as im sure you are a metallica fanboy wich thinks ST.ANGER is the biggest prog-masterpiece since close to the edge. And there are certainly more power-metalish prog-metal bands on this page than there are thrash-metalish prog metal bands on the site. And yes maiden uses BASS,DRUMS,GUITARS on all the tracks so i can agree that it sounds exactly the same...they should have changed instruments to TRUMPETS,SAXOPHONES and BAGPIPES so that it would not all sound the same No i dont care to discuss with neither Mikeenregalia or the metallica fanboy as their opinions are to silly to be discussed...and afterall i dont think mikeenregalia has said ONE thing that i can agree with on this forum

You're turning into quite the little smart-ass,you know that?

[/QUOTE wrote:

Professional manner? He has some opinions that can not even be taken seriosly by saying thinks like ac/dc and motorhead composes songs in the same way. I think i have never ever heard such an insult.

And i would love to hear what makes queensryche soooooo fantastically progressive instead of just stating that Queensryche is prog and maiden is not.

Besides i do not care for the opinions of a nu-metal fan

as i said ONLY THE TWO FIRST rainbow albums where progressive the rest was 80s synth pop 

No - you said, and I quote:

maidenfanboy wrote:  And songs like I surrender. since you been gone and street of dreams leave no doubt that Rainbow is a very progressive band i can agree with that

...if ever metallica could write a complex song like rhyme of the ancient marnier then i think james hetfield head would blow up....

Er... how about "Master of Puppets", "Orion", "Call of Cthulu", "The Four Horsemen", "...And Justice For All" (The entire album) - or even "Battery". "Rhyme..." is not very complex when you look at what Maiden were doing in the song. It's great, don't get me wrong, but there really aren't that many ideas at work when you pull it apart, and it's a bit long

Metallicas music composing skills= Oh lets write a really AGRESSIVE RIFF..it does not mather if it is good as long as it is AGRESSIVE and then lets put in a really bad ballad with lots of cliches in it to let people think that we can write intelligent songs...

That's not true, now, is it. (Note that's not a question).

What is a good riff?

I like most of Metallica's riffs, up to the Black album (as I said before - not Load or anything later) and I guess they do too - so from that point of view, they're good.

Are you saying that Iron Maiden wouldn't stoop to writing an aggressive riff? You seem to be suggesting it. I don't think that's strictly true.

Now please tell me where the ballads are on any of the first 4 Metallica albums?

And how come, if it's so bad, Metallica released "Nothing Else Matters" twice - once in an orchestrated version, and people still bought it. What is bad? Are you saying that Ballads are bad? Did Iron Maiden ever write a ballad...?

Did Iron Maiden never use cliches?

People use cliches because they work. Composers throughout history used cliches. Mozart used cliches - was he a bad composer?

How does using cliches and writing bad ballads make people think you're intelligent?

Oh.

I See.

Sarcasm.

Very droll

I remember kirk hammet and lars ulrich on the making of the black album saying that making it sounds the most agressive was the most important thing in their music...

Do you have a link to that interview anywhere?

Professional manner? He has some opinions that can not even be taken seriosly by saying thinks like ac/dc and motorhead composes songs in the same way.

I think i have never ever heard such an insult.

I could give you worse insults if you prefer.

But I don't understand where the insult lies. Both AC/DC and Motorhead are rooted in the blues - of course the way they put songs together is similar!

And i would love to hear what makes queensryche soooooo fantastically progressive instead of just stating that Queensryche is prog and maiden is not.

Go on then - listen to some Queensryche - I dare you!

Besides i do not care for the opinions of a nu-metal fan

Would you take the opinions of a Musique Concrete fan instead then?