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Lindsay Lohan 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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 Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:04 |
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Well anyway since QUEEN is concidered a prog band THEN you would expect complex arangements?
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Citanul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 430
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:07 |
 maidenrulez wrote:
I generally don't like male vocalists who tries to sing like girls..sorry not my thing
And just because they have had major hits dont certainly mean that
the music is good. The songwritings skills on any of the queen members
in non present |
It depends what you mean by songwriting skills. All the members
of Queen wrote songs which were hits, so that means they were able to
write songs that appealed to the general public. Maybe they're
not so impressive from a prog sense, but anyone who can put together
Bohemian Rhapsody must have some decent songwriting skills.
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Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:10 |
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
I generally don't like male vocalists who tries to sing like girls..sorry not my thing
And just because they have had major hits dont certainly mean that the music is good. The songwritings skills on any of the queen members in non present
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It depends what you mean by songwriting skills. All the members of Queen wrote songs which were hits, so that means they were able to write songs that appealed to the general public. Maybe they're not so impressive from a prog sense, but anyone who can put together Bohemian Rhapsody must have some decent songwriting skills.
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Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters.
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Citanul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 430
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:13 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
I generally don't like male vocalists who tries to sing like girls..sorry not my thing
And just because they have had major hits dont certainly mean that
the music is good. The songwritings skills on any of the queen members
in non present
|
It depends what you mean by songwriting
skills. All the members of Queen wrote songs which were hits, so
that means they were able to write songs that appealed to the general
public. Maybe they're not so impressive from a prog sense, but
anyone who can put together Bohemian Rhapsody must have some decent
songwriting skills.
|
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare
their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair
enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most
PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters. |
Are Asia better songwriters than Queen?
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Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:15 |
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
I generally don't like male vocalists who tries to sing like girls..sorry not my thing
And just because they have had major hits dont certainly mean that
the music is good. The songwritings skills on any of the queen members
in non present
|
It depends what you mean by songwriting
skills. All the members of Queen wrote songs which were hits, so
that means they were able to write songs that appealed to the general
public. Maybe they're not so impressive from a prog sense, but
anyone who can put together Bohemian Rhapsody must have some decent
songwriting skills.
|
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare
their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair
enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most
PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters. |
Are Asia better songwriters than Queen?
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Collectively or individually? 
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:17 |
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
I generally don't like male vocalists who tries to sing like girls..sorry not my thing
And just because they have had major hits dont certainly mean that the music is good. The songwritings skills on any of the queen members in non present
|
It depends what you mean by songwriting skills. All the members of Queen wrote songs which were hits, so that means they were able to write songs that appealed to the general public. Maybe they're not so impressive from a prog sense, but anyone who can put together Bohemian Rhapsody must have some decent songwriting skills.
|
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters.
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Are Asia better songwriters than Queen?
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ASIA has always been a big mistake...the only reason why ASIA must have been added must be because the artists did PROG before they came into ASIA and then made plain pop. But ofcourse there are alot of artists that are on this site that are rather dodgy like nightwish or porcupine tree but my main argument was really that TOTO is more prog than queen.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:22 |
Anyone who understands music, will know that Queen were exceptionally talented and unique songwriters. They were capable of writing songs with a conceptual edge and progressive feel, as well as an abilty to effortlessly churn out highly original, well crafted hits.
Even if you dont personally like them, they were more versatile and musically aware than, for instance, Iron Maiden. I listened to Maiden for years as a kid, and despite their obvious technical ability I'm surprised that educated grown man like them dont get bored playing the same mediocre head banging bullsh!t year after year after year.
That said, I'm sure if you asked Bruce Dickinson what he thought of Queen, I'm sure he would hold them in very high regard.
...and I'm not even a Queen fan!!
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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BiGi
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 848
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:25 |
Citanul wrote:
Are Asia better songwriters than Queen?
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To say the least, they were indeed less successful! 
Anyway I believe Asia's biggest hinderance has always been too little daring!
And Queen were far more daring than many other acts!
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A flower?
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Citanul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 430
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:26 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
I generally don't like male vocalists who tries to sing like girls..sorry not my thing
And just because they have had major hits dont certainly mean that
the music is good. The songwritings skills on any of the queen members
in non present
|
It depends what you mean by songwriting
skills. All the members of Queen wrote songs which were hits, so
that means they were able to write songs that appealed to the general
public. Maybe they're not so impressive from a prog sense, but
anyone who can put together Bohemian Rhapsody must have some decent
songwriting skills.
|
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare
their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair
enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most
PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters.
|
Are Asia better songwriters than Queen?
|
ASIA has always been a big mistake...the only reason why ASIA must
have been added must be because the artists did PROG before they came
into ASIA and then made plain pop. But ofcourse there are alot of
artists that are on this site that are rather dodgy like nightwish or
porcupine tree but my main argument was really that TOTO is more prog
than queen. |
Well you didn't make a very good argument that Toto were more prog than
Queen. Instead you pointed out some vague similarities.
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Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 05:46 |
If you compare the first maiden album to forexample dance of death you would have to be deaf no to hear that the music has not evolved? The music is still good ol heavy metal but with some nice symphonic elements compined with some more complex arrangements, truly great.
I guess most that think maiden have only heard the 80's maiden...a shame really.
And although a bit vague i wanted to point out that TOTO is equally proggish to QUEEN not that i want any of the bands on this page...
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Citanul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 430
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:10 |
maidenrulez wrote:
If you compare the first maiden album to
forexample dance of death you would have to be deaf no to hear that the
music has not evolved? The music is still good ol heavy metal but with
some nice symphonic elements compined with some more complex
arrangements, truly great.
I guess most that think maiden have only heard the 80's maiden...a shame really.
And although a bit vague i wanted to point out that TOTO is equally
proggish to QUEEN not that i want any of the bands on this page... |
I would agree with you on your points about Maiden. However, you
said that Toto and Queen were both similar in prog terms because they
had dumb lyrics, boring guitar solos, bad singers and were crap.
Hardly an objective, convincing argument.
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Be or be not. There is no question. - Yoda, Prince of Denmark
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:17 |
maidenrulez wrote:
2.Have you heard sign of the cross, sevneth son of a seventh son,rhyme of the ancient marnier?
Great stuff!!!
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1. I know Iron Maiden very well ... great band.
2. I really like Ryme of the Ancient Mariner ... but the song isn't progressive. Listen to Shadow Gallery - Ghostship ... THAT's progressive.
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:18 |
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
If you compare the first maiden album to forexample dance of death you would have to be deaf no to hear that the music has not evolved? The music is still good ol heavy metal but with some nice symphonic elements compined with some more complex arrangements, truly great.
I guess most that think maiden have only heard the 80's maiden...a shame really.
And although a bit vague i wanted to point out that TOTO is equally proggish to QUEEN not that i want any of the bands on this page...
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I would agree with you on your points about Maiden. However, you said that Toto and Queen were both similar in prog terms because they had dumb lyrics, boring guitar solos, bad singers and were crap. Hardly an objective, convincing argument.
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Well i guess i wanted to bash both of them at the same time HOWEVER i think that both toto and queen got progressive elements in some of their songs but that they mainly concentrate on making pop and that is what i hate about both these bands. Ofcourse you can say that indeed yes and genesis and even jethro tull have not all been progressive all the way through i would like to think that they where remebered for their progressive efforts rather than their pop efforts. With toto and queen it is the other way around i would say 90 percent of all their music is using very simple song structures and that holds no interest to me at all.
And i still think that both bands have horrible vocals because of the singing way high notes that would normally be sung by women. I think too many male vocalists is trying to reach high notes and that annoys me quite a bit.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21156
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:22 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters.
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"Queen is PROG" ... noone said that. They're in the archives, filed under Art Rock. They were included because their early albums are considered PROG by the owners of the site and some influential members (and by me, incidentally). Nobody said that songs like We are the Champions or I Want to Break Free are PROG.
Calm down a little. I guess that if Iron Maiden were included, you wouldn't want to see Queen fans bashing Iron Maiden with silly arguments like "They are no more progressive than Manowar" or "Bruce Dickinson can't sing".
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:24 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
2.Have you heard sign of the cross, sevneth son of a seventh son,rhyme of the ancient marnier?
Great stuff!!!
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1. I know Iron Maiden very well ... great band.
2. I really like Ryme of the Ancient Mariner ... but the song isn't progressive. Listen to Shadow Gallery - Ghostship ... THAT's progressive.
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Hmm the ultra zone? The only steve vai album i got. Strange stuff...anyway i would say that certainly ROTAM got several progressive elements like more intelligent lyrics, alot of timechanges and has some great atmospheare in the midsection combined with sound effects and diffrent approaches to singing. All in all a very nice arangement put together in a very intelligent matter. I would concider that progressive IMO
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:33 |
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
If you compare the first maiden album to forexample dance of death
you would have to be deaf no to hear that the music has not evolved?
The music is still good ol heavy metal but with some nice symphonic
elements compined with some more complex arrangements, truly great.
I guess most that think maiden have only heard the 80's maiden...a shame really.
And although a bit vague i wanted to point out that TOTO is equally
proggish to QUEEN not that i want any of the bands on this page...
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I would agree with you on your points about
Maiden. However, you said that Toto and Queen were both similar
in prog terms because they had dumb lyrics, boring guitar solos, bad
singers and were crap. Hardly an objective, convincing argument.
|
Ofcourse you can say that indeed yes and genesis and even
jethro tull have not all been progressive all the way through i would
like to think that they where remebered for their progressive efforts
rather than their pop efforts. |
Untrue. Ask the average person on the street what songs they know/remember by those three and you'll get these answers:
- Owner of a Lonely Heart
- I Can't Dance (and countless other examples of 80s piffle)
- Aqualung/Locomotive Breath (Semi-prog at best)
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:41 |
Trouserpress wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Citanul wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
If you compare the first maiden album to forexample dance of death you would have to be deaf no to hear that the music has not evolved? The music is still good ol heavy metal but with some nice symphonic elements compined with some more complex arrangements, truly great.
I guess most that think maiden have only heard the 80's maiden...a shame really.
And although a bit vague i wanted to point out that TOTO is equally proggish to QUEEN not that i want any of the bands on this page...
|
I would agree with you on your points about Maiden. However, you said that Toto and Queen were both similar in prog terms because they had dumb lyrics, boring guitar solos, bad singers and were crap. Hardly an objective, convincing argument.
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Ofcourse you can say that indeed yes and genesis and even jethro tull have not all been progressive all the way through i would like to think that they where remebered for their progressive efforts rather than their pop efforts. |
Untrue. Ask the average person on the street what songs they know/remember by those three and you'll get these answers:
- Owner of a Lonely Heart
- I Can't Dance (and countless other examples of 80s piffle)
- Aqualung/Locomotive Breath (Semi-prog at best)
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id say invisbile touch is the worst of all of those. Anyway id say the average fans of these groups (genesis, yes and jethro tull) would perhaps like them for their progressive efforsts while the average fans of groups like toto and queen would remember their big pop hits.
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M. B. Zapelini
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 21 2005
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 773
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:43 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters.
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"Queen is PROG" ... noone said that. They're in the archives, filed under Art Rock. They were included because their early albums are considered PROG by the owners of the site and some influential members (and by me, incidentally). Nobody said that songs like We are the Champions or I Want to Break Free are PROG.
Calm down a little. I guess that if Iron Maiden were included, you wouldn't want to see Queen fans bashing Iron Maiden with silly arguments like "They are no more progressive than Manowar" or "Bruce Dickinson can't sing".
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Great point, MikeEnRegalia. This Queen thread seems like an endless discussion. I don't like Queen, although I think they deserve a place right here at ProgArchives, as an Art Rock band. So what I usually do... I donīt visit their page at ProgArchive, I am not interested in what my fellow prog mates wrote about Queen. And PLEASE let's forget about Iron Maiden at ProgArchives - they are great heavy metal, probably the greatest heavy metal band of all time, but they're not prog. If you will judge by lenght of some songs (as "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner" - a fantastic song, by the way), so Venom would be prog ("At war With Satan" has 20+ minutes)...
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"He's a man of the past and one of the present"
PETER HAMMILL
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:44 |
Can I join in? 
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254
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Posted: August 30 2005 at 06:46 |
M. B. Zapelini wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
maidenrulez wrote:
Well since queen suddenly is PROG then suddenly you have to compare their songwriting skills to other PROG artists. And they are fair enough composers compared to most rock/pop artists but compared to most PROG artists they lack quite a bit.
gee its fun writing PROG with big letters.
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"Queen is PROG" ... noone said that. They're in the archives, filed under Art Rock. They were included because their early albums are considered PROG by the owners of the site and some influential members (and by me, incidentally). Nobody said that songs like We are the Champions or I Want to Break Free are PROG.
Calm down a little. I guess that if Iron Maiden were included, you wouldn't want to see Queen fans bashing Iron Maiden with silly arguments like "They are no more progressive than Manowar" or "Bruce Dickinson can't sing".
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Great point, MikeEnRegalia. This Queen thread seems like an endless discussion. I don't like Queen, although I think they deserve a place right here at ProgArchives, as an Art Rock band. So what I usually do... I donīt visit their page at ProgArchive, I am not interested in what my fellow prog mates wrote about Queen. And PLEASE let's forget about Iron Maiden at ProgArchives - they are great heavy metal, probably the greatest heavy metal band of all time, but they're not prog. If you will judge by lenght of some songs (as "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner" - a fantastic song, by the way), so Venom would be prog ("At war With Satan" has 20+ minutes)...
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I did not say that i would like iron maiden included i just said that iron maiden are far more progresive than queen will ever be. And why i call the songs Rhyme of the ancient marnier for progressive i have clearly staded above. And not because of its lenght.
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Queen eh?
