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Cygnus X-2 
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 Posted: May 03 2005 at 01:10 |
 Butterfleef wrote:
Not only that, but he drummed on quite a few songs that were too complex for Ringo such as Back in the USSR, and others. Furthermore he played guitar AND piano on quite a few songs.
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The reason he played drums in Back in the USSR was because at the time it was recorded, Ringo wasn't in the Beatles. Tensions were so high during the White Album sessions that he just got up and left. Fortunately, after a few days, he came to his senses and returned to the Beatles. Paul also played drums on 'The Ballad of John and Yoko'.
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 01:18 |
Butterfleef wrote:
NetsNJFan wrote:
Ben2112 wrote:
lunaticviolist wrote:
The Beatles may not have been a true prog rock band, but they are surely one of the most progressive bands of all time.
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I think that sums it up nicely. |
If Only they could play their instruments, and didn't write pop music!!!!!
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Could play their instruments?! I will admit that Ringo isn't the greatest drummer ever, but as I've read in a different thread, he was the king of "less is more" drumming. Paul McCartney was one of the best bassists ever, in my opinion, and a lot of my defense comes from Abbey Road. Not only that, but he drummed on quite a few songs that were too complex for Ringo such as Back in the USSR, and others. Furthermore he played guitar AND piano on quite a few songs. The acoustic guitar solo at the end of Wild Honey Pie on The White Album was Paul. George is a whole different story. Not only is he one of my favorite guitar players of all time, he can play the sitar, and every brass instrument. His arrangements on Love You To and Within You and Without You are extraordinary. John, too, was a very good guitar and piano player and should be credited as highly as the other two.
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Just a quick mention:Ringo owns Carl Palmers old Stainless steel drum kit.
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terramystic
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Joined: February 02 2005
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Points: 776
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 02:31 |
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The Beatles were the first big influence in prog.
Sgt. Pepper was influenced by Beach Boys and Zappa to some degree but
it was the album that made people start to mix different genres and
make concept albums. Prog was born!
The Fabulous 4 werne't big virtuosos, but they were good songwriters,
they had a good sense for melody, they weren't affraid to experiment
with different genres, instruments, sounds, effects... Ringo wasn't
doing anything special but he was s very reliable drumer and keeping
tempo almost like a metronome...
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 03:35 |
Ringo had a fantastic feel for what he was doing in the context of the incredible song-writing masterclasses that John and Paul gave the rest of the world.
Sure it's "less is more" - but many if not most of the greatest drummers could learn a thing or two from Ringo. Over-busy drumming in music can kill songs for all but the most ardent drum fans, and drum solos are often the times that the bar is busiest at most gigs I've been to.
Prog rock is not virtuoso music, otherwise the Satrianis and Malmsteens would be in the archives.
The Beatles were the greatest influence that pop/rock music has ever had, enormously creative and experimental - but prog rock owes its creation to other sources as well;
The Byrds, who practically invented psychedelia, and the psychedelia/garage scene.
John Mayall/Alexis Korner and the British Blues movement of the early 1960s.
Folk music generally and the folk-rock that sprang up around the same time as psychedelia - especially Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan - later including bands like Love, who melded the two genres.
In all the above, the Beatles were probably catalysts for major changes in the genres, but there are also sources of prog rock inspiration in which the Beatles' influence is far, far lower;
Jazz - and later fusion, notably Miles Davis,
"Classical" music - Rakhmaninov particularly, but few eras left unplundered.
...so I don't think the Beatles started the whole thing, but they were, of course, incredibly influential.
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PROGMAN
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Joined: February 03 2004
Location: Wales
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Points: 2664
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 04:51 |
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Some influences but what about Pink Floyd!
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CYMRU AM BYTH
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firth_of_Fifth
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 26 2005
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Points: 192
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 05:26 |
Nothing much more to add to this, but I voted very influential, Being my favorite band afterall.
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 20251
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 06:03 |
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I would not say that they started prog rock but were influential enough to have played a role into it!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Manunkind
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 2373
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 06:18 |
Well, what can I add...?
Maybe only the fact that (ommitting some obvious examples) it's not really a good idea to base one's opinion of someone's instrumental prowess on how spectacular his/her music sounds. IMO more often than not one may be disappointed (or pleasantly surprised, depending on the situation) by the reality behind the sounds.
Yes, I do want to defend the likes of Ringo Starr, Nick Pointer and Paul Cook here , even though I'm one of these drum fanatics who loves his drumming to be (creatively) all over the place and drools at the prospect of a 10+ minute drum solo.
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"In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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yarstruly
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Joined: September 29 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 1322
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 08:04 |
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Maybe they didn't fully create Prog, but they certainly inspired prog! They showed that anything was possible and allowable within a "rock" framework! They made it conceivable....
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Facebook hashtags:
#100greatestprogrockchallenge
#scottssongbysong
#scottsspotlight
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 09:56 |
Butterfleef wrote:
NetsNJFan wrote:
Ben2112 wrote:
lunaticviolist wrote:
The Beatles may not have been a true prog rock band, but they are surely one of the most progressive bands of all time.
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I think that sums it up nicely. |
If Only they could play their instruments, and didn't write pop music!!!!!
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Could play their instruments?! I will admit that Ringo isn't the greatest drummer ever, but as I've read in a different thread, he was the king of "less is more" drumming. Paul McCartney was one of the best bassists ever, in my opinion, and a lot of my defense comes from Abbey Road. Not only that, but he drummed on quite a few songs that were too complex for Ringo such as Back in the USSR, and others. Furthermore he played guitar AND piano on quite a few songs. The acoustic guitar solo at the end of Wild Honey Pie on The White Album was Paul. George is a whole different story. Not only is he one of my favorite guitar players of all time, he can play the sitar, and every brass instrument. His arrangements on Love You To and Within You and Without You are extraordinary. John, too, was a very good guitar and piano player and should be credited as highly as the other two. |
I agree with you on the most part. As for Paul drumming on the White Album, it wasn't a matter of complexity. Ringo simply quit for a while only to come back to see his drums draped in flowers. Remember that story. Paul wasn't half-bad on the drums, he just didn't have that Ringo "feel".
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Progger
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Joined: April 26 2005
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Points: 1188
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 10:03 |
What about 'The Nice' 'Moody Blues' 'Procul Harum' 'Tomorrow' 'Traffic' 'Small Faces' ect?
These are the bands that started the prog movement!
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yarstruly
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Joined: September 29 2004
Location: United States
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Points: 1322
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 10:28 |
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Every One of them was influenced by the Beatles!
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Facebook hashtags:
#100greatestprogrockchallenge
#scottssongbysong
#scottsspotlight
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Progger
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 10:34 |
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I always associate prog with long complex pieces of music. What was the longest song the Beatles ever recorded?
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 10:43 |
Progger wrote:
I always associate prog with long complex pieces of music. What was the longest song the Beatles ever recorded? |
Have a stab at ''Revolution 9''
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 11:19 |
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SGT Peppers was the advent of prog rock IMO. Also the days of future passed by the moodies.
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 15:35 |
Karnevil9 wrote:
Progger wrote:
I always associate prog with long complex pieces of music. What was the longest song the Beatles ever recorded? |
Have a stab at ''Revolution 9''
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How about the two medlies on "Abbey Road" - don't they count? 
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Easy Livin
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Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 15:55 |
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What do you consider to be the second medley Cert? The whole of side 2 is one of them (presumably), but I've always thought of side one as separate tracks.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: May 03 2005 at 16:02 |
I guess the whole progrock thing was just waiting to happen. The Beatles were very influential, but other bands like The Nice, The Moodies, Procol Harum and Pink Floyd were also hinting in that direction.
Read Ed Macan's book "Rocking The Classics; English Progressive Rock And The Counterculture", and you see that the time was ripe: drugs that expanded the minds of the counterculture, the search for other than material values, people with some musical knowledge who became interested in rock.
On a certain level I think that the following statement is true: without Sgt. Pepper, no progrock. But on the other hand: if the fab four hadn't been there, others would have led the development which lead to progrock. It was "in the air", waiting to be born.
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 28 2004
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 814
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Posted: May 09 2005 at 22:25 |
I have Mark Lewisohn`s book "The Beatles: Recording Sessions-The Official Abbey Road Studio Sessions Notes 1962-1970".(published in 1988). In this book:
-George Martin says that Ringo was their "metronome" and that he rarely did mistakes in the studio.
-Ringo returned to the studio during the "White Album" recording sessions mainly because he was called by the band because they had to appear on TV the next day to promote the "Hey Jude" single (they played the song live on TV; there are some scenes of this clip on the "Anthology" video).
-Ringo left the band for two weeks. He was tired of waiting for the rest of the members of the band to arrive to the studio. He also was criticized by Paul. During 1968 the Egos of some members of The Beatles were bigger than before. That`s why the "White Album" was a double album: The Beatles wanted to record all the songs they have composed then. George Martin suggested to them to only record the best songs for a single album. He lost. Recording Engineer Geoff Emerick left the recording sessions of this album because he was tired of seeing The Beatles fighting in the studio. George Martin also went to holidays for the same reason, and he was replaced by Chris Thomas. After Martin returned to the studio, he and Thomas worked together with The Beatles . During Ringo`s absence they only recorded two songs as a trio: "Back in the USSR" and "Dear Prudence", with Paul playing the drums. The rest of the booked recording sessions were used to record songs alone (Paul and John in different studios in Abbey Road;John began his "Revolution 9" song then) and some of them were canceled until Ringo`s return.
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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marktheshark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 24 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1695
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Posted: May 10 2005 at 00:34 |
Guillermo wrote:
I have Mark Lewisohn`s book "The Beatles: Recording Sessions-The Official Abbey Road Studio Sessions Notes 1962-1970".(published in 1988). In this book:
-George Martin says that Ringo was their "metronome" and that he rarely did mistakes in the studio.
-Ringo returned to the studio during the "White Album" recording sessions mainly because he was called by the band because they had to appear on TV the next day to promote the "Hey Jude" single (they played the song live on TV; there are some scenes of this clip on the "Anthology" video).
-Ringo left the band for two weeks. He was tired of waiting for the rest of the members of the band to arrive to the studio. He also was criticized by Paul. During 1968 the Egos of some members of The Beatles were bigger than before. That`s why the "White Album" was a double album: The Beatles wanted to record all the songs they have composed then. George Martin suggested to them to only record the best songs for a single album. He lost. Recording Engineer Geoff Emerick left the recording sessions of this album because he was tired of seeing The Beatles fighting in the studio. George Martin also went to holidays for the same reason, and he was replaced by Chris Thomas. After Martin returned to the studio, he and Thomas worked together with The Beatles . During Ringo`s absence they only recorded two songs as a trio: "Back in the USSR" and "Dear Prudence", with Paul playing the drums. The rest of the booked recording sessions were used to record songs alone (Paul and John in different studios in Abbey Road;John began his "Revolution 9" song then) and some of them were canceled until Ringo`s return. |
Along with Anthology, that book is one of the best books on them. A wealth of info.
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