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Plankowner View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Your opinion on Prog Metal
    Posted: May 18 2011 at 02:22
Originally posted by Purple_Floyd Purple_Floyd wrote:

I didn't know where to post this topic, considering it's more about progressive metal than anything else.

I've always been a big metal fan. It's also the sub-genre that introduced me to music in general, and to prog later. Still today, even if I'm listening to a lot more of rock-prog, I still have a inclination towards well written metal pieces, like some Dream Theater epics, etc. Though, I've never believed that it was in any way a superior sub-change, just as respectable as any kind of genres (Except for commercial pop ;p).

Sadly, two of my friends doesn't have the same opinions as me. One of them listen to a lot of jazz/pop/retro (He's an hipster, after all) and the other listen exclusively to classical music.

Their general consensus is that, while metal music can be melodic, it's without doubt emotionless, violent, and overall unimpressive mess that tries to put as many notes as possible in their songs.

I blieve their description is deeply inaccurate, considering the many highly emotional, complex (and sometimes calm!) albums and songs made by artists like Pain of Salvation, Opeth, Maudlin of the Well, Fates Warning, Ayreon, Riverside or, once again, Dream Theater.

I would love to hear some opinions from people on PA around metal, especially metal prog, whether you like it or not. I believe I can count on the community to be a lot more open-minded then my pals.



I like it, I like it alot.
 
omg, 50,000 albums in here go crazy..Tongue


Edited by Plankowner - May 18 2011 at 02:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:43
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice


A great singer will always be a "waste" to people who don't like their genre.  Mikeal plays in a style he wants to play, and there are people that like it.  Hardly a waste just because there are people who aren't into (or in your case just outright don't get) metal

I'm not the biggest fan of jazz, but I don't think it's a waste of fine musicians.  They do what they like to do
 
he sings great. Growling is a terrible fad which has lasted 25 years

And yet, some people like it.  It's still only a sub-genre of the whole metal genre
 
you'll probably notice most of these people are either angry or depressed too lol

Yeah.  Damn those cheesy power metal bands and their cheesy fantasy songs.  They should calm the f*** down.  They might get a hernia
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:35
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice


A great singer will always be a "waste" to people who don't like their genre.  Mikeal plays in a style he wants to play, and there are people that like it.  Hardly a waste just because there are people who aren't into (or in your case just outright don't get) metal

I'm not the biggest fan of jazz, but I don't think it's a waste of fine musicians.  They do what they like to do
 
he sings great. Growling is a terrible fad which has lasted 25 years

And yet, some people like it.  It's still only a sub-genre of the whole metal genre
 
you'll probably notice most of these people are either angry or depressed too lol

I was under the impression that every single human being gets mad or sad, sometimes. Don't you watch Ni-Hao, Kai-Lan?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:28
Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice


A great singer will always be a "waste" to people who don't like their genre.  Mikeal plays in a style he wants to play, and there are people that like it.  Hardly a waste just because there are people who aren't into (or in your case just outright don't get) metal

I'm not the biggest fan of jazz, but I don't think it's a waste of fine musicians.  They do what they like to do
 
he sings great. Growling is a terrible fad which has lasted 25 years

And yet, some people like it.  It's still only a sub-genre of the whole metal genre
 
you'll probably notice most of these people are either angry or depressed too lol


Edited by dr prog - May 17 2011 at 21:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:27
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

He might be.  There's opinion, and then theres opinion based on nonsense

As for your opinion, sure there are a lot of "shredder" bands, but for quite a lot of the metal bands I've been seeing, I personally have to disagree.

I know, which is said I wasn't attempting to generalize. If a band isn't shred, it isn't. I personally adore Ayreon and Queensryche and Savatage and Atheist and Death and Metallica and Pain of Salvation and Devin Townsend and Cynic and Opeth and maudlin of the Well and Alice in Chains and Judas Priest and Rainbow (only with Dio) and blah blah blah. I'm not trying to speak blindly.

I get you.  I thought that's what you meant by the part when you said it pushes the other instruments to the back  (probably should have quoted that)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:23
Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

He might be.  There's opinion, and then theres opinion based on nonsense

As for your opinion, sure there are a lot of "shredder" bands, but for quite a lot of the metal bands I've been seeing, I personally have to disagree.

I know, which is said I wasn't attempting to generalize. If a band isn't shred, it isn't. I personally adore Ayreon and Queensryche and Savatage and Atheist and Death and Metallica and Pain of Salvation and Devin Townsend and Cynic and Opeth and maudlin of the Well and Alice in Chains and Judas Priest and Rainbow (only with Dio) and blah blah blah. I'm not trying to speak blindly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:21
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice


A great singer will always be a "waste" to people who don't like their genre.  Mikeal plays in a style he wants to play, and there are people that like it.  Hardly a waste just because there are people who aren't into (or in your case just outright don't get) metal

I'm not the biggest fan of jazz, but I don't think it's a waste of fine musicians.  They do what they like to do
 
he sings great. Growling is a terrible fad which has lasted 25 years

And yet, some people like it.  It's still only a sub-genre of the whole metal genre
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:20
Originally posted by Repner Repner wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice


A great singer will always be a "waste" to people who don't like their genre.  Mikeal plays in a style he wants to play, and there are people that like it.  Hardly a waste just because there are people who aren't into (or in your case just outright don't get) metal

I'm not the biggest fan of jazz, but I don't think it's a waste of fine musicians.  They do what they like to do
 
he sings great. Growling is a terrible fad which has lasted 25 years
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:18
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice


A great singer will always be a "waste" to people who don't like their genre.  Mikeal plays in a style he wants to play, and there are people that like it.  Hardly a waste just because there are people who aren't into (or in your case just outright don't get) metal

I'm not the biggest fan of jazz, but I don't think it's a waste of fine musicians.  They do what they like to do
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:11
Of course there's metal i havent heard but all that death, black, thrash is just attrocious imo. I've heard enough of Tool and Opeth to not rate them. I like Opeth's non metal songs though but then I listen to their metal and think what a waste of a band with good ideas and a rare great voice. Every Tool song has the same pattern and that annoying annoying voice. Extremely limited composers Tool are

Edited by dr prog - May 17 2011 at 21:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:08
He might be.  There's opinion, and then theres opinion based on nonsense

As for your opinion, sure there are a lot of "shredder" bands, but for quite a lot of the metal bands I've been seeing, I personally have to disagree.


Edited by Repner - May 17 2011 at 21:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:04
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm not a fan of metal at all. Anything that has to be heavier than Heavy rock is pointless and done because of a fad imo

I'm not a fan of rock at all. Anything that has to be heavier than soft folk is pointless and done because of a fad imo.
 
Good for you. As for metal, screaming/growling vocals only bring music down.

Since when did all metal vocals constitute screaming and growling? Does this mean Geoff Tate is a figment of my imagination?
 
Who's that?
 
70s prog is meaner than any metal anyway. Heavy bass craps on guitar riffs Cool

Meaner? Don't tell me you think Rush is 'meaner' than Slayer. :P 

You're a f**king silly person. I don't particularly care for any one sound. It's the melodies that I care for. I hate heavy rock MORE than metal, because it's the same damn thing, only less forceful in general. 
 
Metal doesn't have melody, it never did

So all those vocal hooks and NOTES BEING PLAYED in all those Pain of Salvation songs aren't real? Why aren't those CLASSIFIED MELODIES, melodies? I mean, isn't a melody a pattern of notes? These songs have patterns of notes, therefore either your logic is inane, a completely ignorant hallucination, or you're trolling. I have faith in you and immediately assume the latter. 

That being said, if you are a troll, I've seen better. I used to troll these hallowed halls with the best of 'em. :P
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:02
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm not a fan of metal at all. Anything that has to be heavier than Heavy rock is pointless and done because of a fad imo

I'm not a fan of rock at all. Anything that has to be heavier than soft folk is pointless and done because of a fad imo.
 
Good for you. As for metal, screaming/growling vocals only bring music down.

Since when did all metal vocals constitute screaming and growling? Does this mean Geoff Tate is a figment of my imagination?
 
Who's that?
 
70s prog is meaner than any metal anyway. Heavy bass craps on guitar riffs Cool

Meaner? Don't tell me you think Rush is 'meaner' than Slayer. :P 

You're a f**king silly person. I don't particularly care for any one sound. It's the melodies that I care for. I hate heavy rock MORE than metal, because it's the same damn thing, only less forceful in general. 
 
Metal doesn't have melody, it never did

You haven't heard much metal, have you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:00
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm not a fan of metal at all. Anything that has to be heavier than Heavy rock is pointless and done because of a fad imo

I'm not a fan of rock at all. Anything that has to be heavier than soft folk is pointless and done because of a fad imo.
 
Good for you. As for metal, screaming/growling vocals only bring music down.

Since when did all metal vocals constitute screaming and growling? Does this mean Geoff Tate is a figment of my imagination?
 
Who's that?
 
70s prog is meaner than any metal anyway. Heavy bass craps on guitar riffs Cool

Meaner? Don't tell me you think Rush is 'meaner' than Slayer. :P 

You're a f**king silly person. I don't particularly care for any one sound. It's the melodies that I care for. I hate heavy rock MORE than metal, because it's the same damn thing, only less forceful in general. 
 
Metal doesn't have melody, it never did. Lots of prog gives me shivers because of the way they merge rock with jazz and classical music. The busy and catchy ideas and the sound and instruments they use absolutely smash metal to pieces. Metal doesnt put a single shiver down my spine. It makes me laugh. The compositions are weak, it's all about how loud and fast they be. American based crap LOL


Edited by dr prog - May 17 2011 at 21:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 20:56
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm not a fan of metal at all. Anything that has to be heavier than Heavy rock is pointless and done because of a fad imo

I'm not a fan of rock at all. Anything that has to be heavier than soft folk is pointless and done because of a fad imo.
 
Good for you. As for metal, screaming/growling vocals only bring music down.

Since when did all metal vocals constitute screaming and growling? Does this mean Geoff Tate is a figment of my imagination?
 
Who's that?
 
70s prog is meaner than any metal anyway. Heavy bass craps on guitar riffs Cool

Meaner? Don't tell me you think Rush is 'meaner' than Slayer. :P 

You're a f**king silly person. I don't particularly care for any one sound. It's the melodies that I care for. I hate heavy rock MORE than metal, because it's the same damn thing, only less forceful in general. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 20:54

This is heavy perfection. Any heavier and it would start to suck

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 20:52
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm not a fan of metal at all. Anything that has to be heavier than Heavy rock is pointless and done because of a fad imo

I'm not a fan of rock at all. Anything that has to be heavier than soft folk is pointless and done because of a fad imo.
 
Good for you. As for metal, screaming/growling vocals only bring music down.

Since when did all metal vocals constitute screaming and growling? Does this mean Geoff Tate is a figment of my imagination?
 
Who's that?
 
70s prog is meaner than any metal anyway. Heavy bass craps on guitar riffs Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 20:49
Metal was never good imo. There's always something in a metal song which makes it non enjoyable but most metal is awful though. Heavy rock is the perfect heavy sound. It is a much better style than Hard rock which is limited to standard hard rock bass playing
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 20:46
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

I'm not a fan of metal at all. Anything that has to be heavier than Heavy rock is pointless and done because of a fad imo

I'm not a fan of rock at all. Anything that has to be heavier than soft folk is pointless and done because of a fad imo.
 
Good for you. As for metal, screaming/growling vocals only bring music down.

Since when did all metal vocals constitute screaming and growling? Does this mean Geoff Tate is a figment of my imagination?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2011 at 20:46
Thanks for all your answers.  I've read them all
Seems like a mod/admin changed my thread name and added "prog" to it. I won't change it back, but my scope was larger then just metal prog.

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Red, SEBTP, DSOTM, CTTE


I know Red, I know DSOTM, but SEBTP and CTTE?

Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by Nathaniel607 Nathaniel607 wrote:

I love prog metal! I think it gets way too much shtick with people just bashing it for no easily discernible reason... 

Because the trillions of Dream Theater knock-offs pollute the air, because the other instruments usually take a backseat to the electric guitar and vocalist, because the entire metal paradigm is one that eschews half the human emotional palette, because they tend to swarm to metal due to their lack of abilities when it comes to writing eminently memorable melodies, because half the genre is built around impressing rather than affecting or impacting, because most metal has nothing to do with subtlety, because distortion can mask inferior playing abilities, because people involved with it tend to care more about image and style rather than sheer musical qualities, because the genre lacks a distinct edge for experimentation, because it's typically so damn derivative and unoriginal. Just look at those trillions upon trillions of Iron Maiden albums and Iron Maiden ripoffs releasing the same long, droning, unoriginal tripe year after year, because it propagates this new silly loudness war, because it's often based only on wh can play faster or louder or whatever, because people associated with the genre seem to typically take flash over substance, because it tends to be lyrically banal and adolescent.

There's a nice list of easily discernible reasons. Note: none of these are intended to be generalizations. This also isn't directed toward post metal, or bands such as Pain of Salvation or Devin Townsend. This list doesn't regard ALL prog metal, just the majority, so don't jump with your inane defenses thinking I've gone and done something ugly and erroneous to deface your oh-so-holy genre and forgotten X such and such group or Y such and such group that totally obliterates my preconceived notions of the genre. It don't work like that, Mack. And remember, this is coming from a guy who used to utterly worship heavy metal, progressive or otherwise.


That's the kind of post I was looking for in this thread.

I have to agree with you. Load of crap being made. Still, it won't change the fact that I like Dream Theater (But I used to love them a lot) but I would take PoS (at least, before Scarsick Tongue) before any other metal act.
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