Pink Floyd Album Tournament, Round 3

Echoes trounces the AHM Suite but the "song" sides are pretty even.  I had the Gessin suite on the other day and some of the segments are just plain harsh on the ears.....great ideas that just never came to fruition.

Meddle.  I think Echoes beats the Atom Heart Mother Suite.  Both are ace though.

Atom Heart Mother.

Triceratopsoil wrote: Adams Bolero wrote: bland throwaways like San Tropez ..........

Guldbamsen wrote: Logan wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: Logan wrote: Chris, I don't demand that they enjoy it either (at least Geesin enjoys it).  If any musician wants to sl*g their contributions to a project, more power to them.  I used the term douchey because of the cleansing properties of a douche (washing oneself of...).  In this case, though, and I was trying to highlight the point, it's not just a matter of being very dismissive of one's own work, it's about dismissing other people's work.  That was rather the crux of my post. Roger Waters had collaborated with Ron Geesin before (on Music From the Body), and Waters had this big idea for orchestra that they didn't know how to execute, so the composer/ arranger Geesin was called in.  They gave him a  backing track to work from while they went on tour and asked him to arrange it for orchestra and put it together.  Geesin ended up doing far more and added new melodies, and really shaped it.  He called on others to work on it (most notably John Aldiss for choral work and he deserves credit), and in the end I think it became very much a Geesin work (a collaboration, but one heavily indebted to Geesin).  Still, it was released, they had the band's name put on it, and they toured with it.  So it's not just about Waters and Gilmour sl*gging their own work, they're calling the work of another rubbish.  They've also been dismissive of Syd Barrett's work.  I have wondered if it is an ego thing. Gilmour, despite having been dismissive of Atom Heart Mother for mnay years -- he had called it "absolute crap” -- played guitar for it when Ron Geesin revived it in 2008, complete with orchestra and chorals.  I think one of the reasons for them being so dismissive of AHM, is the fact that it essentially was Ron Geesin who was the brains behind the whole thing. Both Waters and Gilmour were sonic control freaks, and here they are practically out of the equation. I love PF to pieces, but I am not too keen on artists being dismissive of their own output, especially when it involves another great musician, who put his blood, sweat and tears into that specific record. What Ron Geesin did was a stroke absolute genius, and part of me still thinks that they secretly are a bit jealous of him, for doing something that was beyond them at the time. They almost lost control. You can probably guess what I picked Just because Echoes sits on Meddle like a giant anchovy on your pizza, and it´s my fave PF song - I think AHT blows it out of the water. Alans psychedelic breakfast is just amazing too. BTW - Ron Geesin also put out a brilliant solo record called As he Stands. Pretty weird but very recommendable.   That's what I think. And would add that I think that Geesin's work for Pink Floyd had a significant effect on later Floyd music. I find Waters/ Gilmour's attitudes very disrespectful and disheartening -- very ungracious. Had Waters/ Gilmour been able to pull that off, I'm sure they would have been very proud of it.  I think they owe Geesin a debt of gratitude and due credit. I once read an interview with Geesin about his working with Waters, and any possible future collaborations, and he was enthusiastic saying he thought they worked really well together and could release killer material, but didn't expect it to happen.  I also like As He Stands very much; I evaluated it for the Eclectic team not that long ago. Noticing your Clockwork Orange avatar, great film, I expect you know that the Atom Heart Mother album appears in a record store scene and that Kubrick asked Pink Floyd for permission to feature it in that scene (it appears above the soundtrack to 2001 A space Odyssey). And Kubrick asked if he could use Atom Heart Mother in his Clockwork Orange soundtrack, but Pink Floyd turned him down due to Kubrick's request for unlimited license in choosing what portions or edits of the suite he used.  For any who don't know, there a youtube clip that a fan put together: Apparently, Waters later talked to Kubrick about using a piece from 2001 A Space Odyssey for one of his own albums. Calling music that Kubrick was interested in using rubbish is another big no-no in my books (especially for as great a film as Clockwork Orange). If I weren't as pacifistic as I am, it might almost make me, with my droogs, want to resort to a bit of ultra-violence. And Jim, good post too. Kubrick has always been my favourite director, and I see him very much in the same sort of light as my most beloved progressive artists - because of their fantastic way of creating images beyond what you actually see or hear. I was aware of ATH being in the record store scene, which I always thought was funny, but that they actually turned of the most original and innovative film makers down, because (again) it would mean letting go of the control, - that´s completely new to me. Thanks for the info, that was cool. Please don´t resolve to ultra violence, or I´d might be forced to come over there and strap you down, fill you up with mind-sauce and show you pictures you can´t escape from

I like to viddy the olds pics now and then.  I'd rather a kick in the yarbles than watching them with mind-sauce, however. Stanley Kubrick has a terrific compositional eye (they way he composes a scene as well as the way he can structure a film), and I can liken that to my enjoyment of my favourite musicians' works. I really like his visuals, and another favourite director of mine for visuals/ structures is Zhang Yimou (and Tarkovsky in his way, as well as Lars von Trier).

I am rather surprised to see Meddle trouncing Atom Heart Mother so badly as there has been a lot of support shown for the album in posts.  I almost suspect a conspiracy; perhaps Waters paid people off to vote for Meddle.

Incidentally, Meddle is also an interesting collaboration album, but the dog in "Seamus" rarely gets mentioned for its participation, and, though not nearly to the extent of Geesin in AHM, deserves considerable credit. And don't get me started on Animals....


Edited by Logan - October 22 2010 at 18:19

As much as I like Atom Heart Mother, my vote goes for the mighty Meddle.

Adams Bolero wrote: bland throwaways like San Tropez

..........

Meddle for sure.
though Atom Heart Mother has been gaining ground more recently.
Meddle was my favourite pink floyd album until recently having a good deep listen to Dark Side on vinyl.

Meddle was more consistent, but AHM is good too. Personally, I don't think Floyd is able to recognize a good record, even if it's one of their own.

Guldbamsen wrote: Logan wrote: Chris, I don't demand that they enjoy it either (at least Geesin enjoys it).  If any musician wants to sl*g their contributions to a project, more power to them.  I used the term douchey because of the cleansing properties of a douche (washing oneself of...).  In this case, though, and I was trying to highlight the point, it's not just a matter of being very dismissive of one's own work, it's about dismissing other people's work.  That was rather the crux of my post. Roger Waters had collaborated with Ron Geesin before (on Music From the Body), and Waters had this big idea for orchestra that they didn't know how to execute, so the composer/ arranger Geesin was called in.  They gave him a  backing track to work from while they went on tour and asked him to arrange it for orchestra and put it together.  Geesin ended up doing far more and added new melodies, and really shaped it.  He called on others to work on it (most notably John Aldiss for choral work and he deserves credit), and in the end I think it became very much a Geesin work (a collaboration, but one heavily indebted to Geesin).  Still, it was released, they had the band's name put on it, and they toured with it.  So it's not just about Waters and Gilmour sl*gging their own work, they're calling the work of another rubbish.  They've also been dismissive of Syd Barrett's work.  I have wondered if it is an ego thing. Gilmour, despite having been dismissive of Atom Heart Mother for mnay years -- he had called it "absolute crap” -- played guitar for it when Ron Geesin revived it in 2008, complete with orchestra and chorals.  I think one of the reasons for them being so dismissive of AHM, is the fact that it essentially was Ron Geesin who was the brains behind the whole thing. Both Waters and Gilmour were sonic control freaks, and here they are practically out of the equation. I love PF to pieces, but I am not too keen on artists being dismissive of their own output, especially when it involves another great musician, who put his blood, sweat and tears into that specific record. What Ron Geesin did was a stroke absolute genius, and part of me still thinks that they secretly are a bit jealous of him, for doing something that was beyond them at the time. They almost lost control. You can probably guess what I picked Just because Echoes sits on Meddle like a giant anchovy on your pizza, and it´s my fave PF song - I think AHT blows it out of the water. Alans psychedelic breakfast is just amazing too. BTW - Ron Geesin also put out a brilliant solo record called As he Stands. Pretty weird but very recommendable.

That's what I think. And would add that I think that Geesin's work for Pink Floyd had a significant effect on later Floyd music. I find Waters/ Gilmour's attitudes very disrespectful and disheartening -- very ungracious. Had Waters/ Gilmour been able to pull that off, I'm sure they would have been very proud of it.  I think they owe Geesin a debt of gratitude and due credit. I once read an interview with Geesin about his working with Waters, and any possible future collaborations, and he was enthusiastic saying he thought they worked really well together and could release killer material, but didn't expect it to happen.  I also like As He Stands very much; I evaluated it for the Eclectic team not that long ago.

Noticing your Clockwork Orange avatar, great film, I expect you know that the Atom Heart Mother album appears in a record store scene and that Kubrick asked Pink Floyd for permission to feature it in that scene (it appears above the soundtrack to 2001 A space Odyssey). And Kubrick asked if he could use Atom Heart Mother in his Clockwork Orange soundtrack, but Pink Floyd turned him down due to Kubrick's request for unlimited license in choosing what portions or edits of the suite he used.  For any who don't know, there a youtube clip that a fan put together:



Apparently, Waters later talked to Kubrick about using a piece from 2001 A Space Odyssey for one of his own albums. Calling music that Kubrick was interested in using rubbish is another big no-no in my books (especially for as great a film as Clockwork Orange). If I weren't as pacifistic as I am, it might almost make me, with my droogs, want to resort to a bit of ultra-violence.


And Jim, good post too.