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Jim Garten 
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Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
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 Topic: zappa. a genius or just a comedian?
Posted: June 07 2005 at 03:11 |
 Blacksword wrote:
Apart from Grand Wazoo, Hot Ratz, Sheik Yerbouti & Zoot Alore, can anyone reccomend some good Zappa albums which are musically consistent throughout?? |
Two from the early 1970s which always go well together and are consistent in their content and quality are "Overnite Sensation" and "One Size Fits All"; the humour is there, of course, but the arrangements are all top notch (especially with musicians such as Jean Luc Ponty, Ian Underwood, Napoleon Murphy Brock and George Duke involved).
These are two definite 'must haves'.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Certif1ed
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 16:15 |
jorim wrote:
Zappa is one of the musicans that used modern classical music influences like Busoni, Respighi and perhaps Boulez.
Perhaps Boulez? Boulez is the champion of Twentieth Century music - without him we might not have pieces by Schoenberg, Webern et al in the orchestral repertoire at all! 
His final attempt "Yellow sharks" are confirming his adherence to classical music patterns. He is a serious person for me. - What I like the most of Zappa is his ability to create musical theatre in his songs. Listen to: "Joe's Garage Part one". His wet t-shirt night is pure theatre without a real stage. It's radio. - His cruel sarcasm appeals to me in "Andy" and "Florentine pogan" (Album : "one size fits all", which I guess is his most contentive album) or his sexism in "Apostrophe" and "Joe's garage". - And then I like his musical abilities as a composer in tracks like "Inka roads" (One size..) His guitar solo on this track is outstanding. No one on earth would play it like this. It's like talking on a guitar. And all his co-musicians on nearly all his records are little geniusses as well: Eddi Jobson, Colajuta etc.
Not forgetting the immensely talented Steve Vai, who probably could play that solo - after all, that's pretty much how he got the gig originally, by playing Frank better than Frank... 
Frank ZAPPA has made the musical field so much funnier and richer that we should thank him for that. His short live is a little bit sad.
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jorim
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 13:21 |
Zappa is one of the musicans that used modern classical music influences like Busoni, Respighi and perhaps Boulez. His final attempt "Yellow sharks" are confirming his adherence to classical music patterns. He is a serious person for me. - What I like the most of Zappa is his ability to create musical theatre in his songs. Listen to: "Joe's Garage Part one". His wet t-shirt night is pure theatre without a real stage. It's radio. - His cruel sarcasm appeals to me in "Andy" and "Florentine pogan" (Album : "one size fits all", which I guess is his most contentive album) or his sexism in "Apostrophe" and "Joe's garage". - And then I like his musical abilities as a composer in tracks like "Inka roads" (One size..) His guitar solo on this track is outstanding. No one on earth would play it like this. It's like talking on a guitar. And all his co-musicians on nearly all his records are little geniusses as well: Eddi Jobson, Colajuta etc.
Frank ZAPPA has made the musical field so much funnier and richer that we should thank him for that. His short live is a little bit sad.
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Nothing is easy
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 12:48 |
undefinability wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Haha, I know. Now people can see what a real discussion is like, rather than, "If you like Dream Theater, you're gay!" |
Well rather than jumping threads lets stay here...I'll start...Dream Theater suck the big one!
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No, they don't, you're the one who sucks!!!!!1111
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I guess you didn't understand I was joking!
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Kubla Khan
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 75
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 10:48 |
Genius & comedian!!
a very talented man. 
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ita_prog_fan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 258
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 09:24 |
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 09:22 |
tuxon wrote:
flowerchild wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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In that case he's a comedian!
How about Genious comedian musician?
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Yeah, I'll agree with that. :)
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....Just us two posting on this whole site it seems! Hey someone else have a go!
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Zappas intelect was above us all, even mine....
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Zappa's intellect is still above yours
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That's what I ment. Same to you
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 08:59 |
flowerchild wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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In that case he's a comedian!
How about Genious comedian musician?
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Yeah, I'll agree with that. :)
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....Just us two posting on this whole site it seems! Hey someone else have a go!
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Zappas intelect was above us all, even mine....
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Zappa's intellect is still above yours
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Posted: June 05 2005 at 08:54 |
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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In that case he's a comedian!
How about Genious comedian musician?
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Yeah, I'll agree with that. :)
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....Just us two posting on this whole site it seems! Hey someone else have a go!
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Zappas intelect was above us all, even mine....
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undefinability
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 23:02 |
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Haha, I know. Now people can see what a real discussion is like, rather than, "If you like Dream Theater, you're gay!" |
Well rather than jumping threads lets stay here...I'll start...Dream Theater suck the big one!
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No, they don't, you're the one who sucks!!!!!1111
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"Don't listen to me."
[IMG]http://www.freewebs.com/shahath/shadowid.jpg">
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Lemming
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 21 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 39
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 23:00 |
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We're Only In It For The Money was a monumental work. One other note was that playing in his band was a huge plus on those musicians's resume'. It was treated like a diploma from MIT in the music world. He is an aquired taste, I will admit, and a lot of his material I don't care for, but what I like, I really like.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 21:23 |
undefinability wrote:
Haha, I know. Now people can see what a real discussion is like, rather than, "If you like Dream Theater, you're gay!" |
Well rather than jumping threads lets stay here...I'll start...Dream Theater suck the big one!
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undefinability
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 21:19 |
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Haha, I know. Now people can see what a real discussion is like, rather than, "If you like Dream Theater, you're gay!"
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"Don't listen to me."
[IMG]http://www.freewebs.com/shahath/shadowid.jpg">
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 21:15 |
undefinability wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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In that case he's a comedian!
How about Genious comedian musician?
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Yeah, I'll agree with that. :)
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....Just us two posting on this whole site it seems! Hey someone else have a go!
Edited by Snow Dog
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undefinability
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 21:06 |
Snow Dog wrote:
undefinability wrote:
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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In that case he's a comedian!
How about Genious comedian musician?
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Yeah, I'll agree with that. :)
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"Don't listen to me."
[IMG]http://www.freewebs.com/shahath/shadowid.jpg">
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 21:04 |
undefinability wrote:
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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In that case he's a comedian!
How about Genious comedian musician?
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undefinability
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 20:58 |
Neither, if I had to be honest.
His comedic material is more or less a joke.
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"Don't listen to me."
[IMG]http://www.freewebs.com/shahath/shadowid.jpg">
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Joren
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 07 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 6667
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 15:12 |
Trouserpress wrote:
greenback wrote:
oh, and IMO he has been stupid at least once in his lifetime, as reveals the many lame parts on the weasels ripped my flesh album.
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He has been stupid many many times. I can't think of a single album of his that is wall-to-wall genius.
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Very funny (or sad, maybe), because I think "Weasels Ripped My Flesh" is one of the albums which display his genius THE BEST. From start to finish, "Weasels" is genius. And, yes, that includes the title track! If you think that the title track was a MISTAKE, or STUPID, then you DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT FRANK ZAPPA WAS TRYING TO ACHIEVE (and he succeeds).
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:31 |
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Zappa is my absolute favorite. Whether you like it or not, you
can thank Zappa for the majority of the prog you hear. A melodic
and composition genius, and one hell of a guitar player, and a true
free-thinker. Thanks to Freak Out! bands weren't afraid to add
discipline and other things that people thought would be embarassing
before hand, like being weird, and orchestral instrumentation. I
understand a lot of his music is hard to digest because Zappa really
saw himself being a composer rather than a rock musician. That's
why later in his career he moved to the Synclavier to write out his
compositions. But damn when he played rock it was downright
incredible. Roxy & Elsewhere to me, is the most technically
accomplished band I have ever heard. And Zappa's composing around
that time was incredible. Echidna's Arf anybody? Also,
Zappa along with Miles Davis pretty much started Fusion. Too much
things about the man to overlook.
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Richardw
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 10 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 762
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Posted: June 04 2005 at 13:06 |
To anyone that thinks Zappa has no musical merit, I would say listen to the vinyl edition of 'Sleep Dirt' and then make up your mind. That album has some of the greatest music you will ever hear. If you don't like him that's your loss. He has made some of the most fantastic music EVER.
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zappa. a genius or just a comedian?
