Meshuggah Prog Metal?

goose wrote: Chooks wrote: If prog is music that has that something different distingushing itself from other types of music the I beleive that Meshuggah should be incuded in the prog metal section. Reasons why: The time signatures used by Meshuggah are crazier than most giving Planet X a run for their money; The chops are insane; The guitar solos are also excellent played on custom 8 string guitars; The drumming could be played without the rest of the music and would still blow ones mind. These all seem to be reasons why Meshuggah are technical, not progressive.

I agree, they are 'Math rock,' I was quite surprised to find they've been
added to the archives.

I do not find their lyrics and concepts anything worthy of being labeled a
'Prog metal' band.

They've been added.  Hurrah.

Adphant wrote: I find headbanging as an easier (and more brutal) method to count! hehe Back to topic: Well, then, EVERY complex band is Prog

What makes you say that? That's nonsense.

Logos wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: If you tell me what popular prog metal albums you've got, I can give you one or two examples of more complex signatures that are easy to recognize. I've got all DT and Opeth albums, but not a lot else..

The beginning of Caught In A Web is a good example, it alternates between 3/4 (8 times) and 4/4 (8 times). So it's 1-2-3 x8, then 1-2-3-4 x8.

Another example is Panic Attac from Octavarium. It starts in 4/4, and then get's a little weird: 5/8 5/8 5/8 4/8 x4. Don't panic  ... just wait until LaBrie starts to sing, and then count 1-2-3-4-5 1-2-3-4-5 1-2-3-4-5 1-2-3-4 ...

You can learn it yourself by trying to tap along and finding out where the "1" is. 1-2-3-4-1 ... means that this section of the song consists of patterns that keep repeating, and those patterns are divided into 4 notes of equal length.

If it's too complicated, nevermind ... you don't have to do this.

 

Logos wrote: Okay I'm starting to see some pretty mean complexity here now. Especially songs like "Straws Pulled at Random" and "Glints Collide" are very proggy. Mike, I still don't know a thing about time signatures so I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to name them even if they kicked me in the ass..

check out this thread:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7412&a mp;PN=7

I don't think that it is important to understand the musical theory. If you want to try: Pick an easy song in 4/4 and try to tap along with your foot, counting 1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-...

If you tell me what popular prog metal albums you've got, I can give you one or two examples of more complex signatures that are easy to recognize.

Logos wrote: I've just listened to Meshuggah's album "Nothing" and although I think the album is GREAT, I can't see the technicality in the music. Crazy time signatures? I've no idea what that means but this doens't seem very complex music to me! Could somebody explain?

Try to name their signatures ... most of the time the instruments play different signatures simultaneously. But Nothing is not their best album ... I'd recommend Destroy Erase Improve if you're into complex Thrash, and Catch 33 if you're into really weird stuff.

Edited by MikeEnRegalia

TLZ* wrote: goose wrote: And the type of extreme metal (the guitars, anyway) is death metal, surely? It's certainly not black metal or grindcore! The vocals I've heard or sort of weird post thrashy stuff though. I may not be very up to date, though. The guitars are in no way death metal. It isn't the amount of distortion that defines death metal(even though it is an important ingridient) it is the melodies/riffs. And from what I've heard Meshuggah's riff are not death metal, thei're earliest riff are kinda thrash-like but their later stuff is something else, they're thrash based but have a very strong jazz/fusion influence. The bands that you could compare Meshuggah with are bands like Ephel Duath, Textures, Spiral Architect and other metalbands that are strongly infleunced by jazz/fusion and prog.

I've been listening to a lot of the older bands coming around where thrash was mutating into death - so at the minute thrash riffs with a lot of distortion sound like death metal

As i have said earlier their later albums I and Catch 33 have are prog metal albums not only through their time signatures and technicality but through the way that they arrange their songs through the albums (although I is only one song). Catch 33 is pretty much one song split into 13 parts if all these factors don't put Meshuggah into prog metal then alot of bands on the archives who are included because of similar factors should be reconsidered (not saying i disagree with the bands that are on this page but whats good for one is good for another i reckon. I want to leave you guys question, is Catch 33 the heaviest concept album made to date?

Interbeing wrote: as much as i love meshuggah (i own all their albums), but they hardly should be classified as prog metal. they are a technical thrash band, with tints of jazz.

So you have Catch 33, too?

Did someone say 23/16 time?  I think they are prog-metal.  Excellent group.