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Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
Topic: Transatlantic - superb band, but those religious.. Posted: May 29 2012 at 05:06
Some of the gangster rap has the most repellant and obnoxious philosophy of life you can come across being pushed on the listener, buta) You listen to stuff sometimes for a vibe, for an effect, sometimes that vibe is down and dirty and cartoonish and anti-social.
b) Whether the artist meant it or not, you can take it as a role/character they're playing for effect, rather than a representation of their world view.
For example, Carrie Underwood's Jesus Take The Wheel has one of the most shocking and irresponsible lyrical messages you're likely to find in a pop song. Yet I don't mind it because sonically it's fairly well constructed. Does Underwood actually think that in times of crisis we should abandon action and just hope things work out? Does she actually recommend that struggling mothers in traffic accidents with sleeping children in the back seat shouldn't even try to do anything but throw their hands up in the air and hope ghosts or other invisible life forms descend from the sky to rectify the situation? Probably not. But she was playing a character to appeal to a demographic who find the notion that in times of crisis, it's all up to Jesus, reassuring. I'm not part of that demographic but it wasn't news to me that it exists and is large enough to market product to, no reason to get upset about it.
Here's a good song with a Christian lyrics that I find kinda badass, about a woman whose abusive ex-partner comes back to her saying he's reformed and has found Jesus. Here's the chorus, but you might like to skip to the video and hear it for yourself:
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Posted: May 28 2012 at 21:13
prog4evr wrote:
miketheorganist wrote:
What amazes me is that atheist prog fans get so offended by lyrics about God. What makes this any worse than any other topic? Why not just assign it to the realm of fantasy? You know, like, "What if there WERE such a being?" I mean, we can wonder about UFOs, ghosts, conspiracy theories, 2012, and have incomprehensible lyrics aplenty, but mention God and it's in the dumpster with it? I mean, if I can manage to listen to a fasntasy story about a lamb lying down on broadway, with slippermen, hairless hearts, etc., why can't you listen to fantasy story about a supreme being who loves people?
^THIS^
I'm not the sort of atheist who takes offense to religious lyrics, but I
think there is a slight distinction between fantasy-based lyrics and
the lyrics that somebody like Neal Morse writes (keeping in mind,
however, that I am one of the biggest NM fanboys you'll ever meet ).
The difference is this... I doubt any of the people writing about Lord
of the Rings-styled fantasy believe that Tolkien's writings are actually
true and provide a believable worldview. People writing about
Christianity often believe it as not only truth, but also as an accurate
worldview. When you think this particular ideology is utter nonsense,
it can be more difficult to overcome than lyrics that are intentionally nonsensical.
Joined: March 05 2010
Location: Knowhere, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 918
Posted: May 28 2012 at 18:55
My opinion about Neal Morse's lyrics has changed a tad since I posted in this thread two years ago. I'm still perfectly happy with the Christian themes (being a believer myself), but the more I listen to them, the more it seems to me that they're just not very good, regardless of what they're about.
I dunno. I still love TA, and Neal Morse, but they don't impress me nearly as much as they once did.
"I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...."
Joined: December 13 2009
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 397
Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:51
To me, the lyrics are what make Transatlantic my number one favourite band And they match so nicely with the moods of the parts.. Duel With the Devil, for example has some of my favourite lyrics ever. And there's still pretty much room for interpretation. Most atheist lyrics don't bother me, and I don't see why they really should.
Joined: January 11 2012
Location: Columbus&NYC
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Points: 3167
Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:12
prog4evr wrote:
miketheorganist wrote:
What amazes me is that atheist prog fans get so offended by lyrics about God. What makes this any worse than any other topic? Why not just assign it to the realm of fantasy? You know, like, "What if there WERE such a being?" I mean, we can wonder about UFOs, ghosts, conspiracy theories, 2012, and have incomprehensible lyrics aplenty, but mention God and it's in the dumpster with it? I mean, if I can manage to listen to a fasntasy story about a lamb lying down on broadway, with slippermen, hairless hearts, etc., why can't you listen to fantasy story about a supreme being who loves people?
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
Posted: May 28 2012 at 14:04
miketheorganist wrote:
What amazes me is that atheist prog fans get so offended by lyrics about God. What makes this any worse than any other topic? Why not just assign it to the realm of fantasy? You know, like, "What if there WERE such a being?" I mean, we can wonder about UFOs, ghosts, conspiracy theories, 2012, and have incomprehensible lyrics aplenty, but mention God and it's in the dumpster with it? I mean, if I can manage to listen to a fasntasy story about a lamb lying down on broadway, with slippermen, hairless hearts, etc., why can't you listen to fantasy story about a supreme being who loves people?
Joined: December 26 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 350
Posted: May 28 2012 at 13:53
i think there is a difference between songs about religion and religious songs
like the difference between a textbook about religions and the bible/koran/veda/what have you
i can enjoy the former in both cases, explorations of what it is to be human
the latter is usually about convincing someone, or trying to out-pious someone else, and is to be avoided at all costs
obviously there is a line of subtlety in the middle
i think earlier posters are right in that for the last 10 years or so, 'christians', or at least some of them, have been awfully irritating in the general culture and politics. were the muslims as large a group or felt as safe (in the US) i am sure we would ahve seen the same. so, right now, 'christian' lyrics, especially if overt, will leave a bad taste in many mouths. this will offend some 'christians' , oh well. these offended christians would likely be pretty upset if another religion was getting as much airplay in as many fields of music.
So...Neal Morse's God allowed himself to be put to death in the most gruesome and painful way imaginable in order to save mankind, and Neal wants to sing about it?!!! HOW DARE HE!!!
Actually, Neal Morse isn't a Trinitarian, so I don't think he'd phrase it quite like that.
Well, the point is: HOW DARE HE BE INSPIRED BY HIS OWN RELIGIOUS VIEWS AND WRITE LYRICS ABOUT THEM!
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
Posted: May 28 2012 at 09:57
I'm not a fan of Rock as a form of evangelism, love spiritual themes, except when they try to use Prog as a way to convince people, despite what religion we are talking about.
But my main problem with Transatlantic is not related to their lyrics, my problem is the music, which I find boring, predictable and unimaginative.
So...Neal Morse's God allowed himself to be put to death in the most gruesome and painful way imaginable in order to save mankind, and Neal wants to sing about it?!!! HOW DARE HE!!!
Actually, Neal Morse isn't a Trinitarian, so I don't think he'd phrase it quite like that.
Joined: February 13 2010
Location: St. Louis, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Posted: May 28 2012 at 09:24
Textbook wrote:
But I don't like Neal Morse or Transatlantic because of the sheer bombastic w**kery. There's not even any ideas in The Whirlwind, it's just let's-go-as-over-the-top-up-our-own-butts-as-we-can-for-the-sake-of-it-and-confuse-forced-grandeur-with-passion.
How can you possibly know how much passion the band has?
No ideas in The Whirlwind? Haha, sorry, but I cannot even comprehend that kind of statement.
If you don't dig Transatlantic, you don't dig them, but, IMO, they have created some of the best symphonic prog rock ever. In fact, I'd put their three studio albums up against just about any bands' best three albums. They are that good.
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Posted: May 27 2012 at 21:13
Since it looks like this thread recently got bumped, I'd like to clarify my position - it's changed a lot since 2009.
Although I used to be a Christian and the lyrics didn't bother me, as an atheist nowadays, I can completely understand where the OP is coming from; I sincerely apologize about the sh*tty post I made a few years back. Looks like I took some major offense to the post (which I shouldn't have), and even though I'm able to overlook the preachy lyrics in return for awesome music, I understand if others are not able to do the same.
I made some pretty poor and regrettable posts over here a few years back, so I'll at least find the time to apologize for this one.
J-Man wrote:
You don't like the lyrics.
You post a thread stating how you don't like the lyrics.
You waste my time by having me look at it.
I'm sorry but starting a thread about EVERYTHING WE DON'T LIKE is just poor forum behavior. If you don't like it, so what? We don't care, buddy.
You're an atheist. I'm a Christian. I agree with Neal Morse. You don't. Get over it!
Joined: December 10 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1301
Posted: May 27 2012 at 21:07
was interesting to see this thread bump. wasn't here for the initial controversy. initially, i was not too keen on neal's vocals or lyrics. but damn, the guy can write a melody like no other this side of mccartney lennon. so, i learned to like his vocals and 'deal' with the lyrics. neal's theology is questionable, but at least he isn't too preachy
So...Neal Morse's God allowed himself to be put to death in the most gruesome and painful way imaginable in order to save mankind, and Neal wants to sing about it?!!! HOW DARE HE!!!
Joined: December 10 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1301
Posted: May 27 2012 at 16:39
Textbook wrote:
I'm an atheist but religious lyrics don't bother me. I listen to gangster rap, but that doesn't require me to endorse murder and drug dealing. I really like a lot of gospel stuff, got a lot of old churchy proto-Americana and bluegrass, there's a really interesting worship group called The David Crowder Band.
But I don't like Neal Morse or Transatlantic because of the sheer bombastic w**kery. There's not even any ideas in The Whirlwind, it's just let's-go-as-over-the-top-up-our-own-butts-as-we-can-for-the-sake-of-it-and-confuse-forced-grandeur-with-passion.
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
Posted: May 27 2012 at 16:36
I'm an atheist but religious lyrics don't bother me. I listen to gangster rap, but that doesn't require me to endorse murder and drug dealing. I really like a lot of gospel stuff, got a lot of old churchy proto-Americana and bluegrass, there's a really interesting worship group called The David Crowder Band.
But I don't like Neal Morse or Transatlantic because of the sheer bombastic w**kery. There's not even any ideas in The Whirlwind, it's just let's-go-as-over-the-top-up-our-own-butts-as-we-can-for-the-sake-of-it-and-confuse-forced-grandeur-with-passion.
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