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The T 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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 Topic: Michael Jackson 1958 - 2009
Posted: July 15 2009 at 11:59 |
^No Friede, you may not be wrong at all...
Though I would say that MJ was not going to live very long anyway... he was too much into prescription drugs and too little into eating...
It's sad that the only aspect of his life where he learned to use total self-control was on the stage, when it was time to perform. In all other regards he never grew up and therefore had probles saying no to himself. His error of sleeping with children, whom he saw as his friends and equal, is but one of the many examples, another one being his spending crazyness and his addiction to painkillers and such.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: July 15 2009 at 10:41 |
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When Jean and I heard the news he had died on the radio, our first reaction was to look at each other and say: "They bumped him off", an opinion we also uttered on a forum which discussed his death. I wrote an entry with a fictitious dialogue on a site which mourned him which went something like this (can't find the site again, so I have to rely on my memory):
Music Mogul 1: "Did you hear the latest news? Michael Jackson is planning a cone-back tour and album"
Music Mogul 2: "Oh no, this will be the catastrophe of the year"!
MM1: "Do you really think so"?
MM2: "Of course I do! The man is 50 now, not really the age for a sex-symbol,, his face is a ruin, he has been out of business for twenty years and he won't be able to stand a tour at all".
MM1: "Hm, you have a point there".
Pause
MM2: "I have an idea. Remember Buddy Holly"?
MM1: "Sure I do; what about him"?
MM2: "Well, he kind of became a legend after his plain crash".
Pause.
MM1: "You mean..."?
MM2: "Yeah, bump him off!! The sales of his back-catalogue will skyrocket, and half a year later we will publish an album with previously unreleased studio material and thus cash in on him twice".
MM1: "Hm, now there's an idea..."
This got me a thumbs-down and many enraged comments from his fans. Now the police are investigating in a murder case. Looks as if I was not that wrong at all...
Edited by BaldFriede - July 15 2009 at 10:44
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: July 14 2009 at 09:08 |
 Jim Garten wrote:
Good post - nice to see a balanced perspective  |
Thank you.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 905
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Posted: July 14 2009 at 08:33 |
I started really getting into Jackson's music a few years ago and I've considered myself a fan ever since.
I do agree that there's been a bit of a martyr thing going on with the media, which is no different from other rock star deaths. Hendrix, Morrison, Elvis, Lennon, Mercury, Cobain. You name it.
Shame that not every musician that passes gets proper respect. I remember when all these conservative talking heads were saying Dimebag Darrell was no loss because *gasp* Damage Plan cursed in their lyrics. Or when Rick Wright's passing didn't get any media coverage at all.
I don't think the media is trying to depict Michael as a god or perfect human being, everybody knows he wasn't, there's still so much scandal going on with this guy, even in death. If people have been talking less negatively about him, it's because his death reminded people of why he was such a big deal in the first place, and despite how much the media made him out to be a complete nutcase, he was still an extraordinary music talent for his time, his music means something to a lot of people and that's what he should be remembered for in my opinion.
Edited by boo boo - July 14 2009 at 08:37
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10618
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Posted: July 14 2009 at 03:23 |
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I would think that a thread titled 'Michael Jackson 1958 - 2009' would obviously be a tribute thread. Please have some decency and dignity and stay away from this thread if you have problems with the man or cannot at least bite your toungue while others pay respect.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: July 14 2009 at 02:58 |
Good post - nice to see a balanced perspective
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: July 14 2009 at 02:47 |
Maybe the reason why some people are suddenly positive about Michael Jackson, after a long time, is that they like his old music and videos, and are a bit put off by the things he did in the most recent decades. That's the case with me, and there are many others like me in this respect.
I couldn't be enthusiastic about MJ's music or his public appearance for quite a long time. When he died, you get an overview on his life, and suddenly the media play / show a lot of his '70's / '80's stuff, and then people can get enthusiastic again. That might be the reason why suddenly people are very positive about him, also in this thread. I know that's how it works with me.
Of course there's the saint / martyr psychological phenomenon as well, I won't deny it, and it's a very strong phenomenon and I don't like that either, but for me: I remember the good ol' times, and suddenly I feel the need to say he did some great things in the past.
Edited by Moogtron III - July 14 2009 at 02:47
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Jim Garten
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Joined: February 02 2004
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Posted: July 14 2009 at 01:52 |
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Admin note -
Irrelevant inter-member bickering removed; this is not the place for that - take it to PM or preferably elsewhere.
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 20:03 |
On a side note, what is your cup of tea? Thanks to Star Trek The Next Generation, mine is Earl Grey. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 530
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 19:47 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I honestly couldn't stand more than five minutes, the guy was almost a saint according to everybody, maybe he wasn't a pedophile, but neither a great man thinking in others before than him.
Popular wisdom says "Every dead man turns into a great person as magic"....Never more accurate than here.
People should remember the good characteristics of a dead man, but not lie saying he/she was almost perfect.
Iván
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I agree. I respect MJ as an artist and even like many of his songs, I was never convinced about him being a pedophile either, but I hate how people like to turn everyone who dies into a saint or a martyr. I mean, a month ago nobody cared at all about him, and now it seems everybody's a fan and he was the greatest person in the world. It's not the recognition he's getting right now that he's dead what bothers me, it's the attitude of people in general and the media who don't appreciate artists (or any people) while they're still alive but when they die they completely overrate them.
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made...
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Matthew T
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Joined: February 01 2007
Location: Australia
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Points: 5291
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:58 |
This is a MICHAEL JACKSON FREE ZONE.
I wish my wife and 2 daughters would stop playing him. He was just not my cup of tea. I have never really been a fan of his music. I was busy with people like Dylan,Stones,Beatles,Steely Dan,Floyd etc so it has been tortorous the last couple of weeks for me  |
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Matt
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Points: 29630
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:43 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I honestly couldn't stand more than five minutes, the guy was almost a saint according to everybody, maybe he wasn't a pedophile, but neither a great man thinking in others before than him.
Popular wisdom says "Every dead man turns into a great person as magic"....Never more accurate than here.
People should remember the good characteristics of a dead man, but not lie saying he/she was almost perfect.
Iván
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Ultimately, unless you were there you can't really know for sure other than he was a bit weird. I was never a serious fan and had a lot of fun making fun of him for his oddness when he was still alive. But, all due respect for his musical accomplishments, even if it wasn't my cup of tea.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Location: Peru
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:19 |
I honestly couldn't stand more than five minutes, the guy was almost a saint according to everybody, maybe he wasn't a pedophile, but neither a great man thinking in others before than him.
Popular wisdom says "Every dead man turns into a great person as magic"....Never more accurate than here.
People should remember the good characteristics of a dead man, but not lie saying he/she was almost perfect.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 13 2009 at 16:25
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 11:40 |
Holy carp!   . Hmm the carp pic totally vanished for some reason. Well, enjoy the Matson tribute cartoon. It was an amazingly huge carp. I think that dot under "Holy carp!" is all that remains.
Edited by Slartibartfast - July 13 2009 at 16:37
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 10:57 |
npjnpj wrote:
I wish all this carp would now just go away.
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Shooooo......
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: July 13 2009 at 10:51 |
I don't think he was guilty of anything personally. Believe me, I know a lot about mentally unstable people.
But yeah, I don't think he was a pedo. I have a hard time believing that a man would openly admit to sleeping with other people's children on primetime television if he actually had any idea that what he was doing was wrong.
Pedophiles keep a low profile.
This man was clearly an emotionally unstable and socially inept human being, he was born into stardom for the most part, never had a proper education, his father is pretty much a psychopath. And for celebrities in particular it's quite common to have this feeling of alienation, pressure and ridicule. Money can't buy you happiness.
I don't think MJ really knew much about anything in the world outside of being a performer. And yes, I think he was a brilliant performer, one of my all time favorite music artists. So to me this was a big loss, I don't care that he wasn't the best person in the world, neither are most iconic musicians for that matter, so it pisses me off imensely that people talk bad about him even in death, everybody has faults, and people very often forget that even with all his eccentricities, this was still a human being.
Edited by boo boo - July 13 2009 at 10:52
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: July 09 2009 at 04:51 |
I like that! He's got albums in the charts because he's dead and he should be here to see it, which would then never have happened because he'd be alive.
Edited by npjnpj - July 09 2009 at 04:51
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Passionist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 14 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 1119
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Posted: July 09 2009 at 04:19 |
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EDIT: sry, double post.
Edited by Passionist - July 09 2009 at 05:02
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Passionist
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Joined: March 14 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 1119
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Posted: July 09 2009 at 04:18 |
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This guy has 10 albums in the US top 10 billboard at the moment. That's the all time record and I bet won't be broken by anyone ever. Sadly he couldn't be there to witness it himself, but I think he's seen quite a lot of success himself.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: July 09 2009 at 04:12 |
I wish all this carp would now just go away.
Can just see him being elevated to music messiah status along with Hendrix, Morrison, and suchlike. Yikes!
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Michael Jackson 1958 - 2009
