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Topic ClosedBill Laswell Nomination

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Logan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bill Laswell Nomination
    Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:08
Arcana would be evaluated independently -- for JRF. I know I've heard some of that before (think I have the second album), being an old Tony Williams fan.

Usually Eclectic evaluations are based on the album level that are deemed overall in the Art Rock camp that cross several key Prog subgenres, but it can refer to the career arc if different Prog styles are represented over the career (say one that is in the Symph Prog vein, another that is more JRF, and another that is more Zeuhl). I haven't heard enough to have an opinion (various tracks), he has a huge discography, and I don't own any of his albums, but if, to quote slntwtcher, his "solo" (released under his name) work "leans towards ambient/dub/nu jazz/improv for much of his career with a healthy dose of what you could probably call 'no wave' in the early 80s" or to quote John,, "Laswell solo is more about dub and dub related type stuff" then that does not indicate Eclectic Prog.

EDIT: So slow in writing this that I han't noticed your posts that came in between Slartibartfast's and mine, Slntwtcher until after I posted. Just to let you know I was referring to Slartibartfast's response to mine.


Edited by Logan - October 07 2010 at 13:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:04
Mmmm....Arcana....also a good indicator for the uninitiated regarding Bill's use of 'band' or project names and how vastly different one release can be from the next. This project was totally built around Tony Williams (the second album was finished and released after his death and the project then abandoned). The first release was a trio with Bill, Williams and Derek Bailey...total improv amazing stuff. very Derek Bailey. The second one was closer to Lifetime in spirit and took away Bailey and added Buckethead, Nicky Skopelitis, Byard Lancaster and Graham Haynes. Totally different sylistically.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 13:00
I would argue he's up there as one of the more ecletic artists out there. His discography is vast and extremely far-flung. Some projects are not always successful, but with such a wide ranging catalog I wouldn't expect it to be. As someone who's an unabashed fan (and probably has one of the biggest Laswell collections out there http://www.silent-watcher.net/billlaswell/discography/discindex.html) who is lucky enough to work for Bill in a small capacity, I feel pretty confident in saying that Eclectic Prog is one of the few labels I wouldn't apply to him. It's one of the few genres he hasn't really touched on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:48
I've got a bit of Laswell's stuff, but frankly I can't pigeonhole the stuff, but I must say I like his work a lot, which is why I had to do the Angry LOL.

I've got a CD he was on by a group called Arcana, I currently work at firm called Arcana, so maybe I should recuse myself. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 07 2010 at 12:50
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:18
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

The problem I see with Laswell is his huge discography under his name, his many different projects, and his delving into various different styles (diversity).

Sounds like eclectic to me...
Dammit with these artists that won't stick to one of our sub-genres. Angry


It does sound eclectic, but of course the Eclectic Prog category is not just about being musically eclectic, it's about being Eclectic Prog in that it blends/ references several Prog categories of music while not leaning much towards any particular one of them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 12:01
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

The problem I see with Laswell is his huge discography under his name, his many different projects, and his delving into various different styles (diversity).

Sounds like eclectic to me...
Dammit with these artists that won't stick to one of our sub-genres. Angry
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 10:57
He's really not...there's little if any of his catalog that I would consider anywhere near Prog. And yes...take away production for hire work and leans towards ambient/dub/nu jazz/improv for much of his career with a healthy dose of what you could probably call 'no wave' in the early 80s.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2010 at 10:47
I really don't see how Bill Laswell fits our definition of prog-related. His best bet is avant or JR, but I probably would vote no in JR. We added Material because of its importance in the NYC anti-fuzak scene, but Laswell solo is more about dub and dub related type stuff. He is a big influence on nu jazz, but I'm not sure if that's enough for PA's JR genre.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2010 at 15:28
The problem I see with Laswell is his huge discography under his name, his many different projects, and his delving into various different styles (diversity). I was reading through this thread, and I was getting confused.  Seems quite convoluted. I guess if Avant is not interested, then Eclectic could consider him (even if various ZART members thought it better for Prog Related), but it looks like a proper evaluation would be difficult (unless representative samples from his various works or phases are provided). I've heard some music of his, but how to streamline the process to make it easily manageable for teams (especially if members don't own any albums). It's intimidating.

Rateyourmusic http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/bill_laswell gives his genres as Dub, Ambient, Electronic, World Music, Drum and Bass

And then of course if it is thought better for Prog Related, well that's a lot of work to prepare a case to that team.  I know I want to propose Morricone to Prog Related, but the process is difficult.  Laswell would be an easier case, I think, if it does go that route than Morricone -- I'm quite sure.  Hopefully Avant will be able to make a decision (Related, move, yes or no), but I'm not surprised that this is proving difficult / taking a long time (think Laswell was first proposed five years ago), but maybe if I knew his work better, I wouldn't think it that difficult a case.  Reading through the thread and looking at his discography makes it seem difficult/ intimidating to me.  Eclectic was suggested as a possibility in this thread, but I wouldn't know where to start -- at least in making evaluation relatively easy (how much and which material would be required (is suggested) to come to a  conclusion).


Edited by Logan - October 06 2010 at 15:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2010 at 14:56
Thanks Greg, I saw PF situation which doesn't tell much. Didn't think Laswell is so difficult case, but you never know...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2010 at 14:32
The two teams you belong to have mentioned Laswell's name quite a bit (Avant especially with three pages of results)-- partially due to projects he's been involved with.

Been under Avant evaluation since 2006 and I see posts indicating Prog Related from back then (from using the topic search).  I don't know if it was ever formally put to Prog Related (didn't find him mentioned in The Prog-Related thread).  Looking at the progfreak charts (this goes back three years, there were two votes for Prog Related from Avant members and no yes votes).... SO it looks like the RIO/Avant concencus going back 3 and 4 years has been Prog Related but I don't see an formal decision from that team, so still in progress? (and I didn't read all of the posts that mention him -- maybe some later support/ ideas in the thread).

http://progfreak.com/Bill-Laswell,_dbe,artists,_auto_1021831.xhtml?path=pa/recent


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2010 at 13:42
Does somebody know what is the result of Laswell evaluation? He isn't added till now...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2009 at 15:26
Is the intent to have seperate entries for what might be considered 'significant' projects? If so, I would say both of them fit that catagory. In the pantheon of Zorn releases - though maybe overall they are Zorn initiated and Zorn-helmed - the breadth of the work of each project and the players in each (all with their own formidible careers) certainly makes them significant I think...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2009 at 15:23
New guy here...HUGE Laswell fan (that's my discography that's being referenced)....I don't remember the exact scenario with Jaco, but he somehow wandered in during the session and Laswell caught him on tape. Not really a planned edition to the Deadline album.
 
PiL I find gets generally good reviews. Interesting in that people seem to have more respect for it when they know who played on it, though at the time Bill apparently purposely wanted all the players names left off.
 
Supposedly (from John Lydons lips) Miles also did some playing for the album, but for some reason it was not included in the final mix.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2009 at 10:18
...I am of the opinion that all of Zorn's related projects fit pretty snug in RIO/Avant
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2009 at 10:06
Originally posted by Ricochet Ricochet wrote:

So were would two avant-garde/grindcore projects fit here on PA?

You are not allowed to say Eclectic. LOLWink


Art Rock.  Wink

Are these Laswell projects?  I don't know to what you're referring.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2009 at 10:03
Thanks alot Danial and Patrick, just let me know by PM when you want me to add a band and I'll put down this bottle, stumble over to the computer, step on my glasses and curse ... and then add them

P.S. I guess these bands go in avant? If one of these projects seems to have no fit with PA, let it go, no big deal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2009 at 09:41
So were would two avant-garde/grindcore projects fit here on PA?

You are not allowed to say Eclectic. LOLWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2009 at 09:34
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

My knowledge of Zorn is next to nothing but this just seems to make sense.
 
I know a fair amount about the man & more about his music ...he was my first real exposure to avant-garde. I'll continue to work our bios for his related projects unless there are any objections from admin or the rest of the ZART team.


Edited by Captain Capricorn - July 24 2009 at 09:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2009 at 09:22
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ they should be seperate entries, as far as I know all of Fripp's various projects have their own entry, no stress, just get it when you can.


Thanks, yes obviously we will need to enlist the help of admin on this.

Capt. Capricorn has prepared a bio for Painkiller - we might be able to proceed with that, check ZART thread.
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