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FloydWright 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: January 20 2005 Status: Offline Points: 369 |
 Topic: Objective review about genres you dislikePosted: May 01 2005 at 12:12 |
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OK, I'm kinda guilty of doing this to old albums, because I tend to dislike the sound quality problems and some of the playing/production techniques. But, when I do so, I try not to let the particular problems I have "infect" the entire album. I highlight the good where I hear it, and I also try to explain very carefully what perspective I'm coming from, so that people can judge the worth of my opinion for themselves (even if that means deciding they like something because I don't). One example that comes to mind is my review of Rush's 2112, to which I gave 3 stars. |
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 16 2004 Location: Sao Tome and Pr Status: Offline Points: 5187 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 20:15 |
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It was a well-articulated/reasoned post which led to a refreshingly(compared to current standards) mature and intelligent thread. I might post a load of sh*t most of the time,but it is because there is nothing of interest to get my teeth into.... Edited by Reed Lover |
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James Lee
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 20:05 |
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Yeah, don't you just hate those little know-it-all pr1cks who show up out of nowhere with their snotty attitudes? I know I do. |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 17:13 |
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That was a good read, good threads do excist Of course these threads where from a time I wasn't on the forum to dumb it down a little. |
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 17:02 |
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A life? Anyway, see I got on the bus OK, but the driver said my ticket wouldn't get me to Canada...
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 15:14 |
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Hoo-rah for Cheesy Oblivion! That was the one -- third time's the charm, EL.... I admire your tenacity -- now go out and get a life, mate! PS: The kettle boiled dry, and nearly burned the house down Where were you? Trying to clear yer kilt contents through customs? |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 14:56 |
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OK Peter, I think I found it this time, it was that wicked James Lee who cited your review. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21554 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 04:01 |
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Absolutely. Especcially if you DON'T like an album on first listen, any experienced music fan (not just reviewers) should know from personal experience that some music just takes some time getting used to.
Regarding Deadwing: I don't think that you have to listen to an album for years in order to write a competent review. But it definitely takes several spins (I'm talking about listening to the album as a whole). One particular review complained about the track "Shallow" being too commercial and boring ... I think it contains some beautiful parts, and would rather call that review "shallow".
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: April 29 2005 at 00:49 |
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 I'd really like that, Ease -- you'd be welcome at my digs any day, friend!
BTW, thanks again, but that wasn't the thread either.... Oh well! Edited by Peter |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 20 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2546 |
Posted: April 28 2005 at 22:50 |
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I read that post in the forum and you ask some very interesting questions, Easy Livin Knowledge of the genre that is being reviewed is a distinct advantage. As I hinted in my earlier post, I would not review work from a genre I was not entirely familiar with or the music of which I disliked. My writing style would reflect that...not quite guns blazing but almost certainly "short, sharp and too the point". That does not mean I am not up for a challenge. If some one handed me an Opeth album for review - I would do so - but it would probably require many listens and it would be a review done non-hastily and with thought. I agree that reviews of albums that have been released the day before can not be subjective. Porcupine Tree's "Deadwing" is a great example of many reviews done before the dust has settled. Like good wine, an album matures with age or in this instance with repeated listenings. Then one would hope to be able to write a balanced review both subjectively and objectively. |
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: April 28 2005 at 14:51 |
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Try this one Pete: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3590 To post a thread link Peter, all you need to do is highlight the address of the page in the address line at the top, press CTRL+C together to copy it, then paste it into the reply screen using CTRL+V. I'll pop round and show you, put the kettle on... |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: April 28 2005 at 14:46 |
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 PORCUPINE TREE - Signify (1996)Review by rick petersen @ 2:37:20 AM EST, 4/26/2005  — I was at a used CD store earlier today and saw this, which reviewers here seem to rate as one of PT's best. I didn't have time to listen to any track in its entirety, so I probably shouldn't try to review the album. However, here's what I gleaned: The musicians are all very good, and the production values are quite good. My problems? Lacking in personality and originality. Wilson is a competent vocalist, but the nicest thing I can say about his vocal style is that it doesn't annoy me. His lyrics (and guitar style, for that matter) are unmemorable, and his compositions contain chord progressions that I've heard countless times. Like most (all?) modern-day bands with prog tendencies, these guys go to great lengths to fit in, rather than stand apart. After awhile, I started to play "who are they imitating now?" each time I skipped to the next track. I'm going to listen to some other PT albums before I dismiss them entirely, of course. After all, this one's from 1996. They're bound to be doing some other things by now. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
Rick Petersen writes some excellent reviews, but I must take him to task on this one (are you there Rick?) Rick's views and opinions are fine, and well presented BUT you cannot objectively review any album, and especially a prog album after one listen. Worse still after one listen to a bit of each track.
 Why post the review at all? There are already plenty of Porcupine Tree reviews on the site, why not wait till you've heard the album in full a few times at least Rick. (Sorry to single you out, as I say, you do write good reviews as a rule!)
More generally, why are people so keen to psot reviews of new albums so quickly. Prog demands that you get to know an album by hearing it several times before forming an opinion. To look at the number of reviews on the "Deadwing" page, you'd think the album had been out for years.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: April 25 2005 at 18:17 |
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: April 25 2005 at 15:05 |
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Here's one Pierre, I only remember it becuase I started that one! |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: April 25 2005 at 08:57 |
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I think it's possible to write reviews with the intention of being objective if you appreciate what the artist is trying to achieve. At least, that's what I try to do in my reviews. It's an attempt to blend what I enjoy about analysing music in technical depth with the non-technical "touchy-feely" likes and dislikes; e.g. I dislike Dream Theater's music on "Images and Words", but can't help being impressed by the precision virtuosity. I've reviewed some of my favourites, but those tend to be my least objective reviews, as I "get off" on the subject matter. If a piece of music excites me, then I feel the need to share that excitement in the hope that others will feel the same thing. At the same time, I do try to get at the technical reasons behind my liking for the piece - no matter how tenuous! When I review any album - even albums I dislike, I focus on the music. What is happening in the music that brings about the effects the band are seeking to portray? Do I understand what they're trying to do, even if I don't like it? What exactly are the band doing - what resources are they using (musical styles, instrumentation, etc.), who do they remind me of, what clever technical devices are they using - anything that's interesting in the construction of the music itself. Then I try to put that into more digestible English... Historical tid-bits are always fascinating - and DJPanurge's fantastic background on the story behind "Kid A" and "Amnesiac" is exactly the sort of stuff I like to read in other's reviews. I think my review of ELP's debut album strikes a reasonable balance between objectivity and subjectivity - I point out the standout facets of the music that I do and don't like and, even though I dislike the album on the whole, I still awarded it 4 stars - which is appropriate for a prog album that should be in every proggers collection!
In short, I think it's possible to admire what a band does even if it doesn't tickle the musical tastebuds - but there's no point reveiwing an album if all you're going to do is go in with all guns blazing against something you hate. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21554 |
Posted: April 25 2005 at 04:23 |
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I was thinking of Death Metal as far as the vocals are concerned. Being an Opeth fan, I know that they are difficult to categorize, so "Death Metal" describes them as good or bad as "Progressive Metal". But you're right, I should have said: "Someone who doesn't like Death Metal vocals reviews Opeth"
Are you sure? I don't think that the average Iron Maiden fan has too many King Crimson albumsin his/her archive
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Aaron
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 395 |
Posted: April 24 2005 at 15:28 |
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i agree with reviewers should stick to the genres they like for them most part but i just have to say that your example are dead wrong many Metalheads look down on Opeth, i would imagine Death metalheads especially and there are a whole helluvalot of metalheads that love Crimson no offence, but you using those examples is like giving a review of a genre you dislike Aaron |
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004 Status: Offline Points: 8548 |
Posted: April 24 2005 at 10:46 |
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Velvetclown kicks Peter in the Shin, just for fun.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 31 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 9669 |
Posted: April 24 2005 at 10:44 |
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 ^ I (and others) have said it all before. Can anyone find (and post) that old thread about this very subject, please?
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: March 20 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2546 |
Posted: April 24 2005 at 07:29 |
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Hello very knowledgeable debaters My question to you all is why would you review an album from a genre you did not like? I would do such a review for a great deal of money or under threat of mutilation or death! Sounds extreme and emotional, I know. I cannot see that such a review would be objective and I would question the subjectiveness - Is the review a truthful observation by the reviewer or is that person only writing what he wants the readers to see/hear? Its my opinion that some of the so called worse reviews are totally objective and are entirely useless to the reader, who is after all, are looking for some hard facts as well as to get an idea as to whether the album excited or dulled the senses of the reviewer. I cannot believe that anyone would willingly review something they disliked intently - for me it would be rap or death metal. I welcome your comments. |
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
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Objective review about genres you dislike
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MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Do you realise how far away you live!?
(plus, I had to drink all the ale, before it spoiled)!
I think there are others though.
.
