Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Beatles Tomorrow Never Knows Progressive?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedThe Beatles Tomorrow Never Knows Progressive?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
boo boo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Beatles Tomorrow Never Knows Progressive?
    Posted: May 13 2008 at 21:53
Prog? No. Progressive? Without a doubt. That song was completely groundbreaking and insanely ahead of its time.

Edited by boo boo - May 13 2008 at 21:56
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2008 at 06:34
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

^ Well okay Certo, the "what do you think of it" part" I suppose -- but "modern dance music?"ConfusedLOL
 
 
I thought it was a proghole wind-up as soon as I read it -- that's why I checked into the poster.
 
We do get defensive....Geek
 
Carry on -- here's a new, meaty topic to wax scholarly upon: do you think "Twinkle Twinkle" is prog? I mean, it's got Jon Anderson-like lyrics, a science fiction / nature of the universe theme....Ermm
 
Wink
 
Pete
 
I increasingly think we/I have a problem with the semantically challeged.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
chopper View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 20033 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2008 at 16:04
Whilst I agree with that last paragraph, I'm getting the feeling it's not entirely original.
Back to Top
Rank1 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: March 26 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 53 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2008 at 15:41
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:

It's considered one of the first Psychedelic songs.
 
Phil Collins cover of this song is quite good as well on his first solo album.
1. Why do people confuse 'promoters' with 'inventors/innovators'.?
2. In my day the Beatles were said to be the great absorbers and spottersof musical trends, but admittedly they could seemingly without effort come up with beatlesque forms of others' music. This is true with psychedelia, for example Great Society's great psychedelic anthem White Rabbit was written and being played publically in 1965. A year for popular music was a bloody long time for change to happen.
3. If you think Phil Collins's version of TNK is 'quite good', check out Phil Manzanera's 801, Wayne Krantz, and/or Dave Fuiczynski's versions.
 
I disagree with point 1 and 2 entirely.  Rock and Roll on a whole started by absorbing existing styles like country and blues into something new which became Rock and Roll.  Rubber Soul in 1965 already shows traces of psychedelic rock  with the sitar drones and dreamy vocals of  "Norwegian Wood".  "Nowhere Man" is basically psychedelic pop and  "The Word" lyrically and it's extended organ drones is proto-psychedelic rock. 
 
"Tomorrow Never Knows" uses Indian Music and avant/ musique concrete that certainly invents something new in rock music and pop music in general.  The first track recorded for the epochal Revolver L.P., Tomorrow Never Knows (the title lifted from the Tibetan Book of the Dead) was an acid-soaked masterpiece of prime psychedelia. Distorted guitars, Lennon's treated vocals, endless overdubs and the backwards drum loops all prefigure in some way the idea of sampling technology, while the group's interest in transcendental meditation - letting yourself be transported, disorientated, tripped out lies at the heart of everyone's club experiences. Recorded amazingly, only three years after the saccharine pop of She Loves You, this is untouchable genius.
 
 
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2008 at 11:24
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:

It's considered one of the first Psychedelic songs.
 
Phil Collins cover of this song is quite good as well on his first solo album.
1. Why do people confuse 'promoters' with 'inventors/innovators'.?
2. In my day the Beatles were said to be the great absorbers and spottersof musical trends, but admittedly they could seemingly without effort come up with beatlesque forms of others' music. This is true with psychedelia, for example Great Society's great psychedelic anthem White Rabbit was written and being played publically in 1965. A year for popular music was a bloody long time for change to happen.
3. If you think Phil Collins's version of TNK is 'quite good', check out Phil Manzanera's 801, Wayne Krantz, and/or Dave Fuiczynski's versions.
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2008 at 02:31
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

^ Well okay Certo, the "what do you think of it" part" I suppose -- but "modern dance music?"ConfusedLOL
 
 
I thought it was a proghole wind-up as soon as I read it -- that's why I checked into the poster.
 
We do get defensive....Geek
 
Carry on -- here's a new, meaty topic to wax scholarly upon: do you think "Twinkle Twinkle" is prog? I mean, it's got Jon Anderson-like lyrics, a science fiction / nature of the universe theme....Ermm
 
Wink
 
Well, there is a rumour that Mozart wrote "Twinkle Twinkle" aged 5...
 
However, the fount of all knowledge, Wikipedia states that the melody is a French tune, published in 1761 (co-incidentally, the same year in which Wolfie celebrated his 5th birthday...).  The only certain Mozart connection is that he wrote a set of variations on the tune several years later. The lyrics were penned by Ann and Jane Taylor, and published in 1806 http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/2113.html. I must admit, the quality of the lyrical content does seem around the same level as Mr Andersons... Tongue
 
As for Modern Dance Music, I think that Mr Garten would be able to illuminate the proggy tendencies of *some* of it. I'd recommend the album "Peel Sessions" by the Orb as a starter.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2008 at 09:27
Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:

It's considered one of the first Psychedelic songs.
 
Clap I can't agree more with that.
Phil Collins cover of this song is quite good as well on his first solo album.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
A B Negative View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2008 at 14:51
Big%20smile


Edited by A B Negative - April 12 2008 at 14:53
"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
Back to Top
Rank1 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: March 26 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 53 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 15:21

Interestingly Tomorrow Never Knows was a important dance record in Muzik Magazine 50 most important dance records of all time. This was over James Brown

The most important music of the 20th Century. The records which have shaped the music we hear today, from trance to trip hop, from big beat to Basement Jaxx. Everything starts with these...

1) The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" (EMI 1966)
(Revolver L.P.)

Every idea ever used in dance music exists in this song. The first track recorded for the epochal Revolver L.P., Tomorrow Never Knows (the title lifted from the Tibetan Book of the Dead) was an acid-soaked masterpiece of prime psychedelia. Distorted guitars, Lennon's treated vocals, endless overdubs and the backwards drum loops all prefigure in some way the idea of sampling technology, while the group's interest in transcendental meditation - letting yourself be transported, disorientated, tripped out lies at the heart of everyone's club experiences. Recorded amazingly, only three years after the saccharine pop of She Loves You, this is untouchable genius.

The Chemical Brothers, The Beta Band

One minor point I don't hear any backward drum loops in this song. Strawberry Fields Forever has it.  Though I understand what there saying I am not in total agreement with their veiw of the song.



Edited by Rank1 - April 11 2008 at 15:29
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 08:46
^ Well okay Certo, the "what do you think of it" part" I suppose -- but "modern dance music?"ConfusedLOL
 
 
I thought it was a proghole wind-up as soon as I read it -- that's why I checked into the poster.
 
We do get defensive....Geek
 
Carry on -- here's a new, meaty topic to wax scholarly upon: do you think "Twinkle Twinkle" is prog? I mean, it's got Jon Anderson-like lyrics, a science fiction / nature of the universe theme....Ermm
 
Wink


Edited by Peter - April 11 2008 at 08:50
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2008 at 04:29
Originally posted by Peter Peter wrote:

Notice he didn't respond to any of you (almost two months now) , and the use of the mocking "tongue stuck out" emoticon -- also I can't seem to even find his other post.
 
Hook line and sinker, you poor progholes.
 
Jesus -- some of you wrote veritable essays on this obviously bogus, supremely silly subject! Shocked
 
 
Hi Cert! Too much time on your hands, & no one to talk to? You could have talked to me....Wink
 
What the heck - it's an interesting topic, whether purposefully or not. Tongue
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 23:32
Member Profile: ANDREWM Active Stats
Avatar  
Username: ANDREWM
Group: Newbie Newbie
Reviews List
Account Status: Active
Joined: February 15 2008 at 10:25
Last Visit: February 16 2008 at 16:08
Posts: 2 [0.04 posts per day]
Find Posts: Search%20for%20posts%20by ANDREWM Find Members Posts
Online Status: Offline Offline
Information Communicate
Real Name: Not Given
Gender: Not Given
Date of Birth: Not Given
Age: Unknown
Location: Not Given
Homepage: Homepage Not Given
Occupation: Not Given
Interests: Not Given
Private Message: Send%20Private%20Message Send Private Message
Buddy List: Add%20to%20Buddy%20List Add to Buddy List
Email Address: Send%20Email Private
MSN Messenger: MSN%20Messenger Not Given
AIM Address: AIM%20Address Not Given
Yahoo Messenger: Yahoo%20Messenger Not Given
ICQ Number: ICQ%20Number Not Given


Edited by Peter - April 10 2008 at 23:34
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 23:30
Notice he didn't respond to any of you (almost two months now) , and the use of the mocking "tongue stuck out" emoticon -- also I can't seem to even find his other post.
 
Hook line and sinker, you poor progholes.
 
Jesus -- some of you wrote veritable essays on this obviously bogus, supremely silly subject! Shocked
 
 
Hi Cert! Too much time on your hands, & no one to talk to? You could have talked to me....Wink
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
Peter View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 23:15
Two posts in, and this dumb, baiting topic on a prog forum?Stern%20Smile
 
Methinks I smell a troll, folks!Dead
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
Back to Top
jammun View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 22:37
Won't quote any particular post, but one has to admit it's extremely ironic that Ringo's drumming on the tune would come to be seen as a major influence on latter-day music.  And I do not mean this in a bad way at all.  Ringo always knew how to hold a beat (he was a Beat-le after all). 
Back to Top
JLocke View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 15:02
^ That's exactly my point. Folks don't normally see The Beatles as a very experimental band, yet they were exactly that! I freaked one of my friends out a long time ago when I played him TMK. He hates The Beatles, yet he liked that song. When I told him who it was, he didn't quite know what to think! LOL
Back to Top
Rank1 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: March 26 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 53 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 14:49
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

(From previous page)
 
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

....ultimately, the fab 4 did indeed make something more akin to modern dance music than Prog Rock with "TMK".
 
There is a thriving Progressive Dance set of genres, based on exactly this sort of methodology - except using the far easier to use computer/sampler based setup. The difficulty in these genres is sorting out the few really creative artists (and there are some!) from the copy and paste merchants.
 
Wink
 
Sorry,  Certified I have to say I do respect your opinion and knowledge. I am in a prog-band when I first heard this song on the radio I said what is this and who is the band. Then the woman on the radio said it was the Beatles let's say I was suprised.
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 14:27
(From previous page)
 
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

....ultimately, the fab 4 did indeed make something more akin to modern dance music than Prog Rock with "TMK".
 
There is a thriving Progressive Dance set of genres, based on exactly this sort of methodology - except using the far easier to use computer/sampler based setup. The difficulty in these genres is sorting out the few really creative artists (and there are some!) from the copy and paste merchants.
 
Wink
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Back to Top
Rank1 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: March 26 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 53 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 11:55
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by rhinn rhinn wrote:

Working on the facts stated in this post, would that make the original Dr Who theme progressive? Which was recorded in 1963, if memory serves me right.
 
 
I'd agree with that.
 
Delia Derbyshire's electronic realisation of Ron Grainer's composition is truly mind-blowing, given when it was made - you're right, it was 1963.
 
The album "An Electric Storm" that she worked on with David Vorhaus in the group "White Noise" is decades ahead of it's time - the opening track is the basis of bands like Portishead and other Trip-Hop acts, and the rest almost defies description.
 
Delia was one of the first proggers Smile
 
 
You forgot some major points about Tomorrow Never Knows is more of the blueprint for more of the modern dance forms like Acid House or Psychedelic Techno. The repetitive drumming, hypnotic and droning bassline and the swirling soundscapes created by tape loops or samples.  Plus listen to that drum sound. Of course there was experimental music outside of rock in 1963 doing great things but we are talking about progressive rock not progressive music outside the rock frame.
Back to Top
Certif1ed View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2008 at 08:58
Originally posted by rhinn rhinn wrote:

Working on the facts stated in this post, would that make the original Dr Who theme progressive? Which was recorded in 1963, if memory serves me right.
 
 
I'd agree with that.
 
Delia Derbyshire's electronic realisation of Ron Grainer's composition is truly mind-blowing, given when it was made - you're right, it was 1963.
 
The album "An Electric Storm" that she worked on with David Vorhaus in the group "White Noise" is decades ahead of it's time - the opening track is the basis of bands like Portishead and other Trip-Hop acts, and the rest almost defies description.
 
Delia was one of the first proggers Smile
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.545 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.