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rileydog22 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 8844
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 Topic: New subgenres?!?!
Posted: September 13 2007 at 19:32 |
 Ghost Rider wrote:
micky wrote:
looks like I got off easy.... they just offended my senses of good
taste and musical restraint... that coming from an ELP fanatic 
(btw Doc.... there is no crying in prog)
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Well, I wouldn't have let myself be stolen by DT, that's for sure! Remember that pic of Petrucci with the red shock of hair? *feels utterly sick*
Seriously, though, I know there are people around the Web who find the whole subgenre thing ridiculous. I recently had a run-in with some people on an Italian forum who were criticising our system, bashing especially the definition of "eclectic" - which, in case you didn't know, is a creation of my own sick mind.
Personally, I think categorising is necessary when you have to deal with a huge amount of material spanning over 40 years and the five continents, and showing an equally enormous amount of musical divergence. However, subgenres seem to have become a fixation with some members here, so I would advise caution in order to avoid becoming the laughingstock of the prog community, and therefore losing credibility for good.
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I think categorization is useful to help people discover music that suits their taste. If somebody recommends an obscure band and I look it up and find them categorized as Prog Metal I'll know it doesn't fit my tastes; if I see RIO, Kraturock, or Zeuhl I'll know that I'll likely enjoy the band.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 19:21 |
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This discussion just wont die... and I love it!!!
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 03:01 |
micky wrote:
looks like I got off easy.... they just offended my senses of good
taste and musical restraint... that coming from an ELP fanatic
(btw Doc.... there is no crying in prog)
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Well, I wouldn't have let myself be stolen by DT, that's for sure! Remember that pic of Petrucci with the red shock of hair? *feels utterly sick* Seriously, though, I know there are people around the Web who find the whole subgenre thing ridiculous. I recently had a run-in with some people on an Italian forum who were criticising our system, bashing especially the definition of "eclectic" - which, in case you didn't know, is a creation of my own sick mind. Personally, I think categorising is necessary when you have to deal with a huge amount of material spanning over 40 years and the five continents, and showing an equally enormous amount of musical divergence. However, subgenres seem to have become a fixation with some members here, so I would advise caution in order to avoid becoming the laughingstock of the prog community, and therefore losing credibility for good.
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:57 |
The Doctor wrote:
rileydog22 wrote:
Are you crying? Are you crying? There's no CRYING in prog rock! |
Errrrr...why? 
You've apparently never listened to albums like Union, Invisible Touch, or In the Hot Seat. They are so bad, you'll be crying by the second song.  |
I said PROG ROCK, not washed up former-prog bands playing utter sh*t.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:57 |
rileydog22 wrote:
Are you crying? Are you crying? There's no CRYING in prog rock! |
Errrrr...why?
You've apparently never listened to albums like Union, Invisible Touch, or In the Hot Seat. They are so bad, you'll be crying by the second song.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:55 |
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This thread is amazing.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
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Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:54 |
 
 
Peter Hammill - No More The Submariner
In my youth, I played at trains: now all steam is gone.
In my dreams, brief shelter from the rain,
I try to catch the fireglow...
with Dinky Toys, I thought that I was Stirling;
with cricket bat, I say myself as Peter May;
now, with all these images returning,
I wonder who I am today?
As a child, I refought the war, with plastic planes
and imagination:
I sank Tirpitz, blew up the Mohne dam, these and more--
I was the saviour of the Nation!
Oh! To be the captain of a ship of war!
The pilot of a Tempest or a York!
To hold my trench against the Panzer Korps,
instead of simply being one who talks,
and reminisces of his fantasies,
as though life was nothing but to lose...
these only antecede the knowledge that, eventually,
he must choose....
It's a hallmark of adulthood
that our options diminish
as our faculties for choice increase,
till we choose everything and nothing,
too late, at the finish.
In my youth, I held belief: my faith and thought were strong.
But now I'm stripped of every leaf, and it robs me
of the sight of right and wrong.
Oh! To be the son of Che Guevara!
One unit in the serried ranks of black!
A Papist or an Orangeman, a eunuch...
then doubt would never cast the dagger in my back.
Oh! To be King John or Douglas Bader,
Humphrey Bogart or Victor Mature!
Which one is false and easy,
which one harder?
--Of that,
of this,
of me
I'm really not too sure.
Edited by Peter - September 12 2007 at 22:56
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46833
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:45 |
rileydog22 wrote:
Are you crying? Are you crying? There's no CRYING in prog rock!
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:41 |
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Are you crying? Are you crying? There's no CRYING in prog rock!
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micky
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:38 |
looks like I got off easy.... they just offended my senses of good
taste and musical restraint... that coming from an ELP fanatic
(btw Doc.... there is no crying in prog)
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:31 |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:27 |
heyitsthatguy wrote:
new subgenres!?!?!
Me=
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Speaking of beating a dead horse....Y DOEZ EVERY1 HATE DT LOLZ? WAT DID DT EVR DO 2 U?!?!
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:12 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:08 |
new subgenres!?!?! Me=
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2492
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:04 |
My issue wasn't that crossover and eclectic were the same, I just felt most of the bands that were in crossover should have been in eclectic. That was when it first started and crossover is where everything was before relocation. It seems to have stabilized now, which I figured would happen. However, you guys got it running much faster than I anticipated, so well done.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46833
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:04 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:02 |
For me there are only two subgenres of prog...prog that I like...and prog that I don't like.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65255
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 22:01 |
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micky
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Posted: September 12 2007 at 21:40 |
having been away for 3 weeks while this happened...I finally read through this thread.
Some of you should reread it.... and realize how silly some of you sound.
this nugget of wisdom...which I had to go through 7 pages to find....sums it up what Raff and I were thinking
rileydog22 wrote:
I like what progarchives is doing right now: Art Rock
and Prog-Related were the two sloppiest categories on the site, and the
admin team is splitting Art Rock into more appropriate categories and
redefining Prog-related. Hopefully, the addition of Hard/Heavy prog
and Crossover prog will help fans of bands from those genres find music
that suits their tastes.
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noted a commen theme of thinking that crossover and eclectic are the same or similar... crap...
having read... and help write the definitions.... they are
nothing alike. Instead of playing on sematics... just read the damn
defintions. Whether it's crossover, prog-pop, or Art
Rock...the defintion would have been the same. We came up
with categories to split AR based on the 3 definite blocks of groups we
identified within the old AR. There was much debate over the
names.... much as some here at PA's are want to do.... they'll argue
about the fine trim.. and totally miss the structure, the purpose and
the goal.
since I'm back here to PA's full time and have taken the most
contentious of the 3 for myself.. crossover... you can me PM with any
questions... or suggestions.
Edited by micky - September 12 2007 at 21:45
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: August 31 2007 at 14:31 |
12 PAGES ALREADY!  I have just returned from vacation, didn't expect the split to happen though the Art Rock team wished for it for a long time now. Mainly these are the three main genres we've come to agree on, the definitions and orientations within it are bound to have little change. About the confusion of many Art Rock being in Crossover while Heavy and Eclectic Prog having so few bands, it's all a matter of all three genres are in process of being defined and shaped up. We generally made a good list of where all Art Rock bands should go from here on, it's only a matter of time before we'll manage a solid view of all three genres.
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New subgenres?!?!
