Return to Forever

Quote: Sorry guys, but all the bands you are talking about (T. W. Lifetime, Weather Report, Lenny White) belong to the jazz-rock subgenre, a subgenre of jazz that has to be distinguished from the jazz-fusion subgenre.

In contradiction, one of the big jazz rock fusion web discussion groups Fusenet, are suggesting "Romantic Warrior" is RTF's most progressive rock album, right at this moment. As the two more popular RTF albums are "Romantic Warrior" and "Hymn of the 7th Galaxy", I increasingly have the thought: if you prefer the former then you are more a prog rock fan, but the latter more a jazz rock fan (let's discuss?). One thing that hasn't been argued on Fusenet is that jazz rock can considered a sub-section of progressive rock, as well as a sub-section of jazz fusion.

Problem with all this debating as to anything being one thing or another, is that certain artists will fall between the two - Allan holdsworth being a classic example, the media critics have always puzzled as to whether is he rock or is he jazz? As with all art : "art is in the eye/ear of the beholder" and what is progressive rock to one person maybe not to another. In such an abstract area of discussion, no one person can precisely define what the genre is (a sort of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Music) - but I know it when I hear it - as you do. Just avoid those who claim they don't like progressive rock; even the cleverest of critics may know little about what they write about (e.g. check out the first paragraph of Rod Liddell's article on popular lyrics in the LondonTimes Art Supplement published some time earlier this year. Here Liddell had a go a prog, (and amazingly)  specifically the lyrics of Brand X......................).

danbo wrote: Hammar wrote: I think Return to Forever should be included, at least the essentials (such as Romantic Warrior, an album as important as Inner Mounting Flame, Mahavishnu).   AAHHH, Al Di Meola, Stanely Clarke, Chick Corea...........

Let's us not forget Lenny White

Hmm, never heard about it. In matter fact, I don't have any German prog-records in my collection, but many jazz-rock...

I'll check it out! Thank you!

I'm going to Germany in July for a prog/jazz-rock/Zappa-festival. My investigation of German prog will begin....

Thanks for the SUGGESTION about Return to Forever, we will work on it on the next updates.

Di Meola is THE MAN !

On another topic (I don't know which one), people said that the jazzy bands should not be included, but I think thet deserve to be mentioned!

(Inside of me a voice shouts: JOHN ZORN! JOHN ZORN!)

Well, with bands like Mahavishnu, Brand X, Bill Bruford and Soft Machine already included, I think Return to Forever should as well. And yes, I agree Alexander, Weather Report belongs to the list of great fusion bands!

philippe: maybe jazz/fusion is not a subgenre of progressive rock, but they are related! There are elements of jazz/fusion in progressive rock and vice versa! For example, what would you call bands like Hatfield and the North and Picchio dal Pozzo? I say both. And, they are listed here as Jazz-fusion/canterbury/RIO.

Weather Report and Return to Forever, bring it on!!

I think Return to Forever should be included, at least the essentials (such as Romantic Warrior, an album as important as Inner Mounting Flame, Mahavishnu).

Another artist is Mr.Bungle, or simply Mike Patton (Mr.Bungle, Tomahawk, Fantomas, etc.). Albums like California is progrock in my opinion.