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purplepiper 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 280
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 Topic: creating your own writing systems and languages
Posted: August 06 2007 at 20:26 |
 thellama73 wrote:
A simple letter substitution code is ridiculously easy to break, and I doubt the CIA would have much use for it, but it's cool that you like to do those things. I have always been interested in language and linguistics. I once started making up my own language, but it's a nearly impossible task for one person because for a language to function at all it has to have thousands of words, plus all the rules of grammar, etymologies, prefixes and suffixes involved. Even Tolkein's best attempt falls far short of people really being able to converse in it. |
you're absolutely right, it is quite easy to break a simple letter substitution system. I do, however, have many more tricks up my sleeves...I've looked into this stuff quite a bit and I know a bit about how professional codebreakers crack codes, so I can elude some methods. Languages are a whole different story though! extremely difficult to create one...i've never been able to. If I did though, it would have an underlying basis on english in which it is converted directly from english. some people simply replace letters with other letters and call it a new language, but that's way too primitive for my taste and you run into all kinds of pronunciation problems. I'm working on a slightly more advanced system, but it's all just for fun! It's not suppossed to be practical...it's just a hobby. I finished my newest script yesterday! yay!
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 16:05 |
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A simple letter substitution code is ridiculously easy to break, and I doubt the CIA would have much use for it, but it's cool that you like to do those things. I have always been interested in language and linguistics. I once started making up my own language, but it's a nearly impossible task for one person because for a language to function at all it has to have thousands of words, plus all the rules of grammar, etymologies, prefixes and suffixes involved. Even Tolkein's best attempt falls far short of people really being able to converse in it.
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Tuzvihar
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 18 2005
Location: C. Schinesghe
Status: Offline
Points: 13536
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:58 |
rileydog22 wrote:
^^I can't help but notice some irony there....
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Irony? 
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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."
Charles Bukowski
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:57 |
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^^I can't help but notice some irony there....
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Tuzvihar
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 18 2005
Location: C. Schinesghe
Status: Offline
Points: 13536
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:51 |
BaldFriede wrote:
toolis wrote:
why so negative? |
Quite simple: I have to live with the results of this reform and scream inside every time I read "Delfin" in a book or newspaper instead of "Delphin". They should at least have made it optional, as they had done before the reform. Some words like "Fotografie" already had that spelling allowed, but you could still use "Photographie", as I did. This is no longer allowed. Simply ridiculous.
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You know what, Friede? German spelling now looks quite similar to Polish spelling: fotografia, filozofia, delfin, etc. 
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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."
Charles Bukowski
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:00 |
darqdean wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
They don't make things easier, in my opinion; on the contrary, since the origin of words gets lost. And I am thinking in broader terms than just the German language. How do you expect a German pupil to get "philosophy" right in other languages like French and English, where it is written with "ph" instead of "f", when in German it is "Filosofie"?
And if you think I am the only one who is against this reform: Wrong. A lot of leading German authors are against it, among them Nobel Prize winner Günther Grass.
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I agree with formal definitions of grammar, but not of words. At the present moment, the internet is killing good grammar; itinerant punctation and unpunctuated contractions are rendering the written word near unreadable. But words evolve, they should be allowed to change and mutate, absorbing words from other languages and cultures is imperitive to a languages survival. I do not understand people who want to preserve the purity of a language - English is the language it is because forever changing, because it stole useful words from every other language on the planet (even Welsh  ) and because it does not have rules that froze it at some idilic moment in time. People make too much of spelling - it's irrelevant and never bothered Shakespeare any - if you can understand the meaning then what's the problem? |
I totally agree; language is a constantly evolving thing. The difference here is: A bunch of politicians hired a bunch of "experts" to change German orthography. That is not a natural and flowing process, that is a violent and totally arbitrary act..
Edited by BaldFriede - August 06 2007 at 15:01
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 14:26 |
BaldFriede wrote:
They don't make things easier, in my opinion; on the contrary, since the origin of words gets lost. And I am thinking in broader terms than just the German language. How do you expect a German pupil to get "philosophy" right in other languages like French and English, where it is written with "ph" instead of "f", when in German it is "Filosofie"?
And if you think I am the only one who is against this reform: Wrong. A lot of leading German authors are against it, among them Nobel Prize winner Günther Grass.
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I agree with formal definitions of grammar, but not of words. At the present moment, the internet is killing good grammar; itinerant punctation and unpunctuated contractions are rendering the written word near unreadable. But words evolve, they should be allowed to change and mutate, absorbing words from other languages and cultures is imperitive to a languages survival. I do not understand people who want to preserve the purity of a language - English is the language it is because forever changing, because it stole useful words from every other language on the planet (even Welsh ) and because it does not have rules that froze it at some idilic moment in time. People make too much of spelling - it's irrelevant and never bothered Shakespeare any - if you can understand the meaning then what's the problem?
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What?
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:39 |
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They don't make things easier, in my opinion; on the contrary, since the origin of words gets lost. And I am thinking in broader terms than just the German language. How do you expect a German pupil to get "philosophy" right in other languages like French and English, where it is written with "ph" instead of "f", when in German it is "Filosofie"?
And if you think I am the only one who is against this reform: Wrong. A lot of leading German authors are against it, among them Nobel Prize winner Günther Grass.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:32 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Because a change should make sense. This change doesn't. I am not against a change in general, I am against THIS change.
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so, all these changes occuring in your language, don't make any difference? maybe, easier? are they all that insignificant?
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:30 |
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Because a change should make sense. This change doesn't. I am not against a change in general, I am against THIS change.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:23 |
BaldFriede wrote:
toolis wrote:
why so negative? |
Quite simple: I have to live with the results of this reform and scream inside every time I read "Delfin" in a book or newspaper instead of "Delphin". They should at least have made it optional, as they had done before the reform. Some words like "Fotografie" already had that spelling allowed, but you could still use "Photographie", as I did. This is no longer allowed. Simply ridiculous. |
again, i must go back to why... wasn't there a time when German used to be much different and they changed it to what it was until recently? why don't you accept that change much as your forefathers did back then?
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:15 |
toolis wrote:
why so negative? |
Quite simple: I have to live with the results of this reform and scream inside every time I read "Delfin" in a book or newspaper instead of "Delphin". They should at least have made it optional, as they had done before the reform. Some words like "Fotografie" already had that spelling allowed, but you could still use "Photographie", as I did. This is no longer allowed. Simply ridiculous.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:03 |
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 04:54 |
toolis wrote:
purplepiper wrote:
toolis wrote:
did you know that when we read, we only 'see' the first and last letter of every word? so, even if the middle letters weren't in the right order, you could still read it... try it: mesuum of nruatal htsoiry... |
yeah, i've known about this for awhile. Cool huh? i'm sure there are exceptions though... |
and of course the spelling does not affect our ability to read as well... in fact, i read somewhere that maybe the spelling will be simplified for there's no reason to exist..of course that was for Greek which is considered to be a hard to learn language... |
Don't you give me that. There has been a spelling reform that has been fought about for years in Germany. It is final now, and I don't like the results at all. I know how to write after this reform, but I refuse to do so. "Filosofie" instead of "Philosophie"? You can kiss my ass! The only changes I accept are to the rules of punctuation, especially the use of commas, as well as some rules about the capitalization of words; those make sense. The rest you can clearly forget.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 03:18 |
purplepiper wrote:
toolis wrote:
did you know that when we read, we only 'see' the first and last letter of every word? so, even if the middle letters weren't in the right order, you could still read it... try it: mesuum of nruatal htsoiry... |
yeah, i've known about this for awhile. Cool huh? i'm sure there are exceptions though... |
and of course the spelling does not affect our ability to read as well... in fact, i read somewhere that maybe the spelling will be simplified for there's no reason to exist..of course that was for Greek which is considered to be a hard to learn language...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 280
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 03:03 |
toolis wrote:
did you know that when we read, we only 'see' the first and last letter of every word? so, even if the middle letters weren't in the right order, you could still read it...
try it:
mesuum of nruatal htsoiry... |
yeah, i've known about this for awhile. Cool huh? i'm sure there are exceptions though...
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 02:38 |
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did you know that when we read, we only 'see' the first and last letter of every word? so, even if the middle letters weren't in the right order, you could still read it...
try it:
mesuum of nruatal htsoiry...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 280
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 02:30 |
schizoid_man77 wrote:
I am a metal/symphonic/spacey guitar and keyboarder |
I'm an artrock/fusion/symphonic/neo-classical/classical/mathrock guitarist. I like things to be fast, complicated, and utterly unorthodox, and usually very loud!!! King crimson is my favourite art rock group, and return to forever is my favourite fusion group. For symphonic, yes/genesis/elp. For classical, paco de lucia/segovia. For 'mathrock', most of robert fripp's riffs and gentle giant.
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007
Location: Austin TX
Status: Offline
Points: 6890
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 02:16 |
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I am a metal/symphonic/spacey guitar and keyboarder
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 280
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Posted: August 06 2007 at 02:14 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I used something more primitive in the University, mixed letters with Logic symbols and numbers, but not to hide my messages, it was to take notes faster because I'm a very slow handwritter.
Iván |
who knows...that shorthand of yours, with some modification, could become a cryptic conscript!
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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creating your own writing systems and languages
