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 Topic: Led Zeppelin
Posted: April 23 2007 at 13:10 |
 rileydog22 wrote:
I define Prog as "Rock that demonstrates superior intelligence," and the site's definition is basically that in more words. To me, Led Zeppelin didn't make any music any "smarter" than any other classic rock band. For that matter, neither did Queen; it was all pop with bombast, and bombast does not prog make.
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Hard to define "superior intelligence", so I'll (surprisingly for me) let that one go. But saying that BOMBAST DOES NOT PROG MAKE ! How dare you insult Rush, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Tull, Ange, DT, et al. Bombast & pretention are two very important ingredients in your stereotypical prog. And I like my prog in stereo . P.S. Finegan says woof > his mom's coming in from Dalmatia, & his dad's due back soon from Labrador.
Edited by pantacruelgruel - April 23 2007 at 13:10
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ZowieZiggy
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Posted: April 22 2007 at 19:21 |
I have not been on the forum for quite a long while (illness, travel and reviewing).
I could extensively detail my feelings about Led Zep in my reviews. Since some members thought that I did not need to speak as I did about some songs of them, I have detailed almost each of them and my meaning has not changed for an inch : on the contrary. If add up all their discography, there MIGHT be five or six songs that are vaguely prog related. And yes, "Stairway" IS plagiatory for its whole introduction (but still it is a great song). And no, the Untitled album (their fourth one) is not prog by any means.
Still, it is one of my "beloved" band (out of 127).
Cheers.
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ZowieZiggy
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Draconean
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Posted: March 26 2007 at 12:32 |
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No.
But they were a fantastic band and immensely influential.
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I'm running still,
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one day I hope that I'll arrive
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Posted: March 25 2007 at 00:06 |
They were originally part of the late 60s early 70s group of acts that were described as progressive because of their pushing the boundaries of what rock n roll was. Once the prog groups like Yes & Genesis started gaining attention, the term no longer meant the same. So Led Zep then became non-prog. A result that greatly affected their musical success there after - NOT ! 
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sircosick
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Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:10 |
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Not, in general; although Physical Graffiti has some prog moments.
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Figglesnout
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 17:45 |
Guzzman wrote:
This has been discussed before and still the answer is: No, they're not Prog, some of their material had Proggish elements, they were an influential band, they discovered new musical land, they were fantastic. They shouldn't be in the Archives, which is something that has to be said about other bands, Queen among them IMHO. As long as there's the ProgArchives this question will be brought up again and again.   Please stop it!I LOVE LED ZEPPELIN!
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Rather harshly spoken but true.
When I first came here I was bound with the ignorance of this question.
Now that I am wiser in the ways of all prog I wish I could take back many of my dumber, less "knowing" posts...but I cant'...
Haha...my first thread on arriving I think was something a bit like this. I thought I was smart 
The truth is, I was a dumbass, and continue to be a dumbass, but either way--I don't support Led Zeppelin being classified as prog.
Especially after reading a bio on them, and comparing it to a bio on Pink Floyd...
One was obviously prog, the other was not.
In the Pink Floyd bio, the words "Progressive Rock" as a classification was brought up many times, and also as in reference to peers (mostly Soft Machine).
In the Zep book, I don't think the term was ever used in a memorable way to describe their music.
All of this still boils down to opinion...but, if you read up on your common progressive tags, Zep wasn't a pretentious, theater-heavy, classical-music ridden, technically wowing, overblown concept album band...and that's what prog is all about!!!
...right? (kidding.)
Anyways, Zep was a blues rock band that later found themselves experimenting with folk music which led to the evolution of some pretty decent prog-like tracks--but at their core...they had nothing to do with the scene and miss the ties that the other bands of the time have to the genre. Had Bonham lived and the band continued to produce albums then perhaps, yes, they could be considered. But with their output...
Definately Proto-prog, and barely that.
Chairs! (pardon, I'm in a goofy mood today.)
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I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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Scapler
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 15:02 |
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No, no way, they are so not!
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Bassists are deadly
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andu
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 13:56 |
No, I think reviewing proto and related is useful because it makes you think about what/how/why/where to, etc., is prog and that makes your analytic instruments sharper. 
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 13:50 |
Good idea ... I haven't written a review here in quite a while. But when I find some time, shouldn't I rather review a prog album? The agony of choice!
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andu
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 13:47 |
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 13:42 |
^ what he said. But LZ IV is a prog-related album. 
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Jared
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 13:36 |
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no, they aren't...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Guzzman
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Posted: February 16 2007 at 13:33 |
This has been discussed before and still the answer is: No, they're not Prog, some of their material had Proggish elements, they were an influential band, they discovered new musical land, they were fantastic. They shouldn't be in the Archives, which is something that has to be said about other bands, Queen among them IMHO. As long as there's the ProgArchives this question will be brought up again and again. Please stop it! I LOVE LED ZEPPELIN!
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"We've got to get in to get out"
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Melomaniac
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 11:18 |
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Though I love them, they are not prog. They had a certain influence in the shaping of prog though, hence the proto-prog label, with which I agree.
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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andu
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 11:16 |
ZowieZiggy wrote:
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Reason-based debates are the "life" of the forums so please join or start as many as you can, because your posts are always solid and insightful. However I wouldn't want you to stop or slow down reviewing, you're doing a great job! Nothing more to add about Zeppelin I guess, we're all in the phase where we rather speak to the walls than accept someone else's opinions.
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Raff
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 11:11 |
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@ Phil: Excuse me, can I ask you who you are referring to as 'you PA guys'? The Admins and Collaborators, the owners, both or neither?
Personally, I am both part of the Admin team and leader of a specialist genre team, but I can't make decisions as regards adding, subtracting or changing subgenres, not including complete discographies, or refusing the addition of artists if the owners wish them to be here. Therefore, I'd be grateful if for once users took their complaints to those who are responsible for creating this site, avoiding general accusations like the ones thrown in the above post.
*end of rant*
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Phil
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 11:00 |
I love Zep. I mean they really are one of my favourite bands. But I don't consider them prog.
This site has an identity crisis! On one hand we have the likes of Led Zep, Beatles, and various other fine bands included, on the other hand you have some individual works of music that are very definitely prog related, but are not included, because with this site it's either all or nothing - either the artiste's entire canon is included, warts and all, or there's nothing.
Examples of music that can justifiably be called "progressive" but which are not featured here:
Flaming Lips - Yoshimi, Soft Bullett In, Mystic;
Bowie - Low, Heroes;
Keith Jarrett- Survivors Suite
...but certainly no-one would call Bowie or Jarret a "progressive" artist. Or would they?
If you PA guys are going to include various artistes then you need a bit more sophistication. John McLaughlin (my hero!) is included but many of his works are just "straight" jazz - After the Rain? Time Remembered? Prog?? I don't think so.
Yes OK I am of the opinion that some Zep tracks could be considered "progressive"...but if we have to apply labels then really, Zep is just a sophisticated blues based band.
And if I hear you cry it's wrong to apply labels to music - to categorise it - then what the heck are you doing maintaining a site "dedicated" to one particular form of music, "prog"??!!
D'oh!
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Raff
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 00:27 |
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As much as I like Led Zep (which is quite a lot), I don't think they are prog. They were obviously influenced by prog on those tracks that other people in this thread have mentioned, and that may justify their inclusion in Prog-Related. However, we all know the reason why they were included in the site's database. Personally, I don't have any objections to them being here (I'm one of the least bigoted people in the world as far as music is concerned), but I don't really understand those people who try to prove that LZ were a full-fledged prog band.
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 14 2007 at 22:43 |
rileydog22 wrote:
I define Prog as "Rock that demonstrates superior intelligence," and the site's definition is basically that in more words. To me, Led Zeppelin didn't make any music any "smarter" than any other classic rock band. For that matter, neither did Queen; it was all pop with bombast, and bombast does not prog make.
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On the contrary, despite their 'heavy metal bad boys' reputation, Led Zeppelin not only made intelligent rock music, they were clearly a smart group of guys showing taste and elegance in a normally juvenile genre. Queen as well, highly intelligent people doing smart rock with panache.
Edited by Atavachron - February 14 2007 at 23:03
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rileydog22
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Posted: February 14 2007 at 22:38 |
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I define Prog as "Rock that demonstrates superior intelligence," and the site's definition is basically that in more words. To me, Led Zeppelin didn't make any music any "smarter" than any other classic rock band. For that matter, neither did Queen; it was all pop with bombast, and bombast does not prog make.
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Led Zeppelin
