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Vompatti 
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 Topic: Upper/Lower case in titles
Posted: January 21 2007 at 11:17 |
I think it's pretty obvious that all titles should be written correctly, so if there are words in lower case they shouldn't be changed to upper case. That would be the same as deliberately spelling the title wrong. 
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Tuzvihar
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:37 |
 Ghost Rider wrote:
I am referring to both. In Italian titles are written just like normal phrases and sentences. Upper case is only used for the first word in a phrase, or for proper nouns - e.g. "Felona e Sorona".
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In Polish you write titles in the exact same manner. I remember that when I added albums of Skaldowie someone "corrected" all their titles.
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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."
Charles Bukowski
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Fassbinder
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:35 |
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There is always a possibility to write the original title in parentheses... beside the "conventional" one...
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laplace
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:33 |
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I think album titles probably should be capitalized according the rules of their respective languages, otherwise we're setting a bad precedent and people will come away misinformed. That should be more important than being slightly easier on certain peoples' eyes.
I'm slowly dealing with my mislabelled mp3s because the cognitive dissonance became too much. No more "L'Isola di Niente" for me, I'll have to learn to handle the stark italian format. ;)
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Fassbinder
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:31 |
Joolz wrote:
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
Joolz wrote:
erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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That I do not succeed to write it in capital letter and like believe me that there be also other persons in possession of keyboards that do not allow it. All here.
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It's not on the keyboard, it is in the Character Map [assuming you are on a Windows PC] - you find it in Accessories -> System Tools
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I'm off to bed now. Have we reached any decision here? Tony / Raff .....
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As for the diacritics -- if the Character Map isn't helpful, just open a Word document, enter the "Insert Symbol" section, find a diacriticised (??) letter, then copy/paste it into the post box in PA. That's what I do, always successfully. Some of these diacritics are mantained by a system, but some aren't, however...
As for the decision -- I've posted two proposals -- haven't seen any reaction for a while...
Edited by Fassbinder - January 21 2007 at 10:32
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Joolz
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:25 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
Joolz wrote:
erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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That I do not succeed to write it in capital letter and like believe me that there be also other persons in possession of keyboards that do not allow it. All here.
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It's not on the keyboard, it is in the Character Map [assuming you are on a Windows PC] - you find it in Accessories -> System Tools ----------------------------------------------------------- I'm off to bed now. Have we reached any decision here? Tony / Raff .....
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Tony R
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:14 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony, sorry to contradict you (I've been negatively influenced by someone you know.... hahahhaha ), but there is nothing professional in altering the rules of a language. I know that from firsthand experience - I'm a translator among other things, and write essays in Italian in which I quote English book titles by using the rules of English - that is, upper case initials when it is necessary. However, if you think the site looks better with consistency of presentation, I won't start a war against it. I just wanted to offer my qualified advice as a language expert.
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although we wont mention the fact that I studied English, FRENCH and GERMAN Literature for my Honours Degree...
its not about the conventions of language, its about presentation format which is completely different.
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OK, Tony, I understand the point. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you in any way... I didn't know anything about your studies, and I never wanted to imply that you didn't know anything about foreign languages (I am well aware that you're very fluent in French). I just saw this thread and jumped in as usual... never meant to start any kind of controversy. |
I was just teasing you....if I was upset I would have terminated you! 
And my French (and my English grammar judging by this sentence) is dreadful since I havent used it for 25 years.... 
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Mandrakeroot
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:08 |
Joolz wrote:
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
There it is a problem, nevertheless. It it is represented from the word "to be" that in the third singular person of the present indicative it becomes "è". In fact in the computer it is not existed like capital letter.
How do we have to allow us? For example we should write:
"Dopo... Niente è Più lo stesso" (a song by BMS)
or:
Dopo... Niente E' Più Lo Stesso"
Why in Italian it is not the same thing.
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erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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That I do not succeed to write it in capital letter and like believe me that there be also other persons in possession of keyboards that do not allow it. All here.
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Fassbinder
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:03 |
Diacritics are the totally different issue.
Back to our sheep...
I think that it should be seen as "for the PA internal use only", regardless the actual linguistic reality.
Proposals:
1) Everything is written with the capitalised initial letter (unless the lower case is intended by an artist);
2) Main parts of speech are written with upper case initial letter, everything else is with lower case (except for the proper names, of course); once again, unless the lower case is intended).
An example of initial lower case intended by an artist -- pH7 by P.Hammill.
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Raff
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:59 |
Tony R wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony, sorry to contradict you (I've been negatively influenced by someone you know.... hahahhaha), but there is nothing professional in altering the rules of a language. I know that from firsthand experience - I'm a translator among other things, and write essays in Italian in which I quote English book titles by using the rules of English - that is, upper case initials when it is necessary. However, if you think the site looks better with consistency of presentation, I won't start a war against it. I just wanted to offer my qualified advice as a language expert.
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although we wont mention the fact that I studied English, FRENCH and GERMAN Literature for my Honours Degree...
its not about the conventions of language, its about presentation format which is completely different.
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OK, Tony, I understand the point. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you in any way... I didn't know anything about your studies, and I never wanted to imply that you didn't know anything about foreign languages (I am well aware that you're very fluent in French). I just saw this thread and jumped in as usual... never meant to start any kind of controversy.
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Joolz
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:51 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
There it is a problem, nevertheless. It it is represented from the word "to be" that in the third singular person of the present indicative it becomes "è". In fact in the computer it is not existed like capital letter.
How do we have to allow us? For example we should write:
"Dopo... Niente è Più lo stesso" (a song by BMS)
or:
Dopo... Niente E' Più Lo Stesso"
Why in Italian it is not the same thing.
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erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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Joolz
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:49 |
Philéas wrote:
How about making a poll of this thread? Rules vs. Consistent presentation?
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No, it's for the site owners and Admin to decide
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Mandrakeroot
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:49 |
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There it is a problem, nevertheless. It it is represented from the word "to be" that in the third singular person of the present indicative it becomes "è". In fact in the computer it is not existed like capital letter.
How do we have to allow us? For example we should write:
"Dopo... Niente è Più lo stesso" (a song by BMS)
or:
Dopo... Niente E' Più Lo Stesso"
Why in Italian it is not the same thing.
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Tony R
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:49 |
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Philéas
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:45 |
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How about making a poll of this thread? Rules vs. Consistent presentation?
Edited by Philéas - January 21 2007 at 09:45
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Fassbinder
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:41 |
The current conditions aren't too comfortable for work.
I suggest, first of all, to reach the consensus. How should a(n ideal?) title look like? The easiest solution (not necessarily the most logical one) is to write everything with the initial capital letter.
Anyway, only with clear rules in hands, there is a possibility to make a corrector's work.
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Joolz
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:37 |
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Raff
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:36 |
Tony, sorry to contradict you (I've been negatively influenced by someone you know.... hahahhaha ), but there is nothing professional in altering the rules of a language. I know that from firsthand experience - I'm a translator among other things, and write essays in Italian in which I quote English book titles by using the rules of English - that is, upper case initials when it is necessary. However, if you think the site looks better with consistency of presentation, I won't start a war against it. I just wanted to offer my qualified advice as a language expert.
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Tony R
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:28 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony R wrote:
With all due respect this is an English language site so surely presentation of titles etc should follow the English style...?  |
No, Tony, languages should follow their own rules even when quoted in a foreign language context. This is a basic rule of linguistics. Of course, when talking about languages not written in the Roman script, translitteration is essential to afford comprehension. This is not the case with European languages, though. |
Yes, I understand that but this is consistency of presentation we are discussing here, it just looks neater and more professional if they are all presented uniformly. Otherwise the site would have a piecemeal look to it.
Stati Di Immagionazione should be presented the same way as Made In Japan etc..
IMO of course.
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Fassbinder
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:21 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Fassbinder wrote:
I want to bring my apologies for the mess caused by my posts and for the uncomfortable feelings of everybody who was hurted by them. |
What? Are you joking? I'm NOT hurt by anything... As a native speaker of Italian, I just wanted to set the record straight in order to help you do the best possible job. Just that!
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No, unfortunately, I'm not joking. I'm truly very glad that you aren't hurt by any of my posts/suggestions, but I feel I opened an unwanted theme. After all, the re-writing of the titles may take a good amount of (very precious) time. And, at last, who cares? Those who writes everithing with lower case letters, including their proper names? The pedants between us are able to see the right spelling through the forest of mistakes even without any corrections.
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Upper/Lower case in titles
IMO you are both right .... I do believe the conventions [spelling
(accents etc) as well as grammar] of native languages should be
honoured, but it looks much better to be consistent .... doh