Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Tech Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Soloing over Chords and stuff
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedSoloing over Chords and stuff
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Soulman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 22 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 290 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Soloing over Chords and stuff
    Posted: March 05 2006 at 22:31
Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

Playing lead is playing a melody. ie the guitar takes over from the vocal (if they are there). Singers usually know very little about scales, they just put something that sounds good over a series of chords. Any lead instrument should do the same. Sticking with scales and arpeggios will make it sound technically good, but it will make for a boring melody. As long as you know the 'distance' between any two notes in a given scale, you can play what you want. A fair percentage of those who can play exceptional lead do not know much about music theory (this is particularly the case with guitarists), but they can hear when any note sounds 'right'. Music theory, scale and arpeggio practice is important, but on the guitar, not that necessary for playing good lead, as long as you can hear when you play a wrong note. Just put on things that have common chord progressions and jam along. Getting together with other musicians will help greatly in learning how to jam, as well. The more you practice, the more you gain your own patterns and runs that work.


Well that's quite encouraging for me, since I know the seperation between intervals on notes on the fretboard and I do enough music theory to make me somewhat competent...and I'm a singer!

Though  the reason why I started this thread was to find some way to help me jam out better. I guess it all really comes from experience. My jamming abilities are increasing though as I'm listening to different bluesy records to get ideas. I'm still not as good as some of the bluesy players that play, but I think I'm alright not great though.

Definetely I think learning any instrument is like a trade, only experience will make you better (...mostly through practicing songs etc.). I've only been playing for about 2 years now, so I've got a long way to go.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Don't Kill the Whale, Dig it Dig it" - Jon Anderson

I shall live by those words all my life Jon
Back to Top
Rosescar View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 07 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 15:08
Scales are a tool, but there's no reason to freak out if you're not playing in them. I, for one, use some mix of the normal do re mi scale, pentatonic scale, and a more or less blues scale in my soloing. I usually just do free-form though :p
My music!

"THE AUDIENCE WERE generally drugged. (In Holland, always)." - Robert Fripp
Back to Top
Rising Force View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 09 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 439 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 04:01
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ mixolydian is also major.

As I said above: If you know all that and find the scales boring: Try to use the harmonic minor scale instead of the natural minor scale: apply A harmonic minor to the chords based on the notes of that scale. You will get many weird chords AND many weird scales to play around with. 



haha, I was learning about that in my guitar lesson today. Yes, the possibilities are infinite.
 
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21344 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 02:32

^ mixolydian is also major.

As I said above: If you know all that and find the scales boring: Try to use the harmonic minor scale instead of the natural minor scale: apply A harmonic minor to the chords based on the notes of that scale. You will get many weird chords AND many weird scales to play around with. 
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
liquidtheater View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: July 06 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 71 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 21:20
Originally posted by Yanns Yanns wrote:

Quick rundown of the modes people are talking about here:

Ionian: Major Scale
Dorian: b3 and b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Lydian: #4
Mixolydian: b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7 (the minor scale)
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7

As for my favorite, it depends on the situation. For instance, I love jamming in Ab lydian, but I enjoy C locrian too, etc. etc.

 

no no no, most guitarists dont really realize what a mode is,sure those are the intervals but harmonicly your wrong. the best way to understand modes is to actually hear them. Now an example is say you are playing a C major scale(C "ionian") over a C major chord in this situation you are in C ionian but if you play a C major scale over an E minor chord you are now playing in E phrygian its a total change in feel and sound it all has to do with harmony. 

and by the way aeolian is natural minor and phrygian and dorian are also minor, lydian is also major, mixolyidian is dominant, and locrian is half diminished 
Dream Sequencer System Offline
Back to Top
kingofbizzare View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 09 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 520 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 15:52
Originally posted by Yanns Yanns wrote:

Quick rundown of the modes people are talking about here:

Ionian: Major Scale
Dorian: b3 and b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Lydian: #4
Mixolydian: b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7 (the minor scale)
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7

As for my favorite, it depends on the situation. For instance, I love jamming in Ab lydian, but I enjoy C locrian too, etc. etc.

You can also think about them by which scale degree they start on. For exapple, take the C major scale. If you play the same scale, but begin on the second scale degree (D in this case), you now have the D Dorian scale. Mt personal favorite is the Locrian which begins on the 7th, giving it a very unstable quality.

(I'm so glad my high school offers music theory)
Back to Top
cobb View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 10 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1149 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 02:51
Playing lead is playing a melody. ie the guitar takes over from the vocal (if they are there). Singers usually know very little about scales, they just put something that sounds good over a series of chords. Any lead instrument should do the same. Sticking with scales and arpeggios will make it sound technically good, but it will make for a boring melody. As long as you know the 'distance' between any two notes in a given scale, you can play what you want. A fair percentage of those who can play exceptional lead do not know much about music theory (this is particularly the case with guitarists), but they can hear when any note sounds 'right'. Music theory, scale and arpeggio practice is important, but on the guitar, not that necessary for playing good lead, as long as you can hear when you play a wrong note. Just put on things that have common chord progressions and jam along. Getting together with other musicians will help greatly in learning how to jam, as well. The more you practice, the more you gain your own patterns and runs that work.

Edited by cobb
Back to Top
Zac M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 01:36
I like Ionian.
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

-Merleau-Ponty
Back to Top
Soulman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 22 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 00:28
Are minor modes ever used much in like technical guitar music?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Don't Kill the Whale, Dig it Dig it" - Jon Anderson

I shall live by those words all my life Jon
Back to Top
Yanns View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: April 25 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 999 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 15:25

Quick rundown of the modes people are talking about here:

Ionian: Major Scale
Dorian: b3 and b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Lydian: #4
Mixolydian: b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7 (the minor scale)
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7

As for my favorite, it depends on the situation. For instance, I love jamming in Ab lydian, but I enjoy C locrian too, etc. etc.
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21344 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 06:14

^ I always liked "Band in a Box" ... you can download a trial version at www.pgmusic.com. Then you can set up your own chord progressions and jam along.
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
krusty View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: September 27 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1777 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 04:43
Originally posted by Soulman Soulman wrote:

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

^Weather you are aware of it or not you will always be using scales.
Why re-invent the wheel, all these scales were worked out centuries ago you may as well use the knowledge.

Maybe rather than just using "the pentatonic scale, major or melodic/harmonic minors"  you could try learning about modes of scales etc.
Check this program out http://www.guitarscalesmethod.com/



Have you actually tried that program krusty?


Yeah, I'm going through it now.
There's quite alot of theory in it which I wasn't going to bother with but I have now change my mind. I'm going to go through all the 'boring' bits as well.
On the practical side it has a load of pattern trainers for you to play alone with, which is what I use it for most of the time.
Humanism
Back to Top
Soulman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 22 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 19:26
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

Music is what sounds good, its what is aesthetically pleasing.  i can recognize, whether its soloing or performing chord progressions what sounds good. 

I create melodies and rythyms then put them to guitar.  it seems to me certain notes engeneder aan "atmosphere" that others do not. 

I intened to post a few of my songs on the internent for ffeedback.  Im not a guitar virtuoso like Joh McGlaughlin, but i think any guitarist can get be good withou scales.

Can someone convince me otherwise?



Well really, scales and modes just give you more tools to understand the music. Definetely, a person could try memorizing certain patterns that work and become "good", in the opinion of others. But it all really depends on the ethic of the musician.

It's not so much that a musician should want to become good in the eyes of others, that'd be too easy, but then again difficult because you wouldn't be able to please everyone. I think you're most likely satisfied with how you play guitar, which is alright. Though for myself, I want to be able to understand the music and be able to conform to any musical styling easily.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Don't Kill the Whale, Dig it Dig it" - Jon Anderson

I shall live by those words all my life Jon
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21344 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 17:37

Originally posted by Lindsay Lohan Lindsay Lohan wrote:

Aeolian and Mixolydian mode is my current favs btw!

I always prefered dorian ... and dominant phrygian (phrygian based on the harmonic minor scale as opposed to the natural minor scale). But mixolydian can sound really cool too, when used in unusual situations!
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
Asyte2c00 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2099 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 17:32

Music is what sounds good, its what is aesthetically pleasing.  i can recognize, whether its soloing or performing chord progressions what sounds good. 

I create melodies and rythyms then put them to guitar.  it seems to me certain notes engeneder aan "atmosphere" that others do not. 

I intened to post a few of my songs on the internent for ffeedback.  Im not a guitar virtuoso like Joh McGlaughlin, but i think any guitarist can get be good withou scales.

Can someone convince me otherwise?
Back to Top
Soulman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: January 22 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:36
Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

^Weather you are aware of it or not you will always be using scales.
Why re-invent the wheel, all these scales were worked out centuries ago you may as well use the knowledge.

Maybe rather than just using "the pentatonic scale, major or melodic/harmonic minors"  you could try learning about modes of scales etc.
Check this program out http://www.guitarscalesmethod.com/



Have you actually tried that program krusty?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Don't Kill the Whale, Dig it Dig it" - Jon Anderson

I shall live by those words all my life Jon
Back to Top
Lindsay Lohan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 07:39
Aeolian and Mixolydian mode is my current favs btw!
[IMG">http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif">
Back to Top
Lindsay Lohan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 07:20

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ scales are very important - don't dismiss them that easily. Every guitarist should know the modal scales and their typical sound. That doesn't mean that you have to use the scales when improvising all the time.

Certainly i used to practice alot on scales some years ago. Now i just make up my own "custom" scales wich is similar to the 8 most common ones but with a few notes here and there thrown in. I also try to play something that would not typically fit that certain Key but might sound a bit more "interesting"

Basically i make up all the chords and scales by my self although im sure they have a nice name to them

 



Edited by Lindsay Lohan
[IMG">http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif">
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21344 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 07:16
^ scales are very important - don't dismiss them that easily. Every guitarist should know the modal scales and their typical sound. That doesn't mean that you have to use the scales when improvising all the time.
2024 Release Poll

Listened to:
Back to Top
Lindsay Lohan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 25 2005
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 3254 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 07:04

Originally posted by krusty krusty wrote:

^Weather you are aware of it or not you will always be using scales.
Why re-invent the wheel, all these scales were worked out centuries ago you may as well use the knowledge.

Maybe rather than just using "the pentatonic scale, major or melodic/harmonic minors"  you could try learning about modes of scales etc.
Check this program out http://www.guitarscalesmethod.com/

Certain Jazz guitarists plays "outside" of scales but what i said is that you should not think about scales, what scale you use is non important what is important is if it sounds good or not!

[IMG">http://imagegen.last.fm/sideRed/recenttracks/Fjuffe.gif">
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.195 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.