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Gnik Nosmirc View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 30 2024 at 11:45
Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:



Didn't know this one but I laughed my a** off. Especially given the fact that Steve Howe is a great guitarist.
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^I can understand that. The bellybuttons cover always makes me laugh. LOL
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North America
Europe
I've always loved this ELO album, one of their best, but what a dorky cover! When I first got it I thought it was an ok band pic, but then my friend looked at it and said "What's with the belly-buttons?" I totally missed that! I've never seen the European cover in person, but it seems to be better than the North American version. Still, one of the least impressive Hipgnosis covers and that photo of Jeff is so blurry!
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He simply dislikes RW.
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

I am well aware that it is a concept album. Though, as a fan of Pink Floyd, I don't think that dramatic rock opera is the kind of material that matches the band well. There are just too many theatrical songs, such as "Vera," "Nobody Home," "Bring the Boys Back Home," and so on. Pink Floyd is not The Who, and Roger Waters is not the rock opera master Pete Townshend, who wrote "Tommy" (actually twice; the original 1969 album, and five years later he rewrote the complete opera for the Tommy Soundtrack) and "Quadrophenia," which, both on their own, could have been called the perfect 2-LP rock operas. Unlike "Tommy" and "Quadrophenia," whose duration goes by in a flash, "The Wall" is too elephantine and really mediocre, and the mediocre sleeve design only reinforces the impression of the album's mediocrity. Waters is far too dominant on the album, which is basically his offspring; the entire thing is told in a whiny, life-story-telling style by Waters, which only makes the album mundane and dull. 
Isn't it bitter that "Comfortably Numb," composed by David Gilmour, is the far-best song on "The Wall"? It's the fact that Gilmour hasn’t written many songs at all for Pink Floyd since 1972. The album is indeed boring and uninteresting, mostly due to Waters' overpowering presence, and "The Wall" could have been far better as a single LP. Probably then "The Wall" could have been in the rank of "Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young to Die!"—the nice concept album by Jethro Tull that was released three years before "The Wall."

The fact that Roger Waters has something "big" to say is another aspect of the issue. Because of this, he occasionally pushes the music to the back burner in favour of using it to air his complaints and express his rather pathetic beliefs. "The Wall," Waters' "child," amounted to nothing more than a two-faced justification for exaggerated self-pity. 

There are a few infrequent, lighter moments, like the unexpected smash single "Another Brick in the Wall Part 2." Except for that disco-music-based song and David Gilmour's "Comfortably Numb," there isn't any real excitement on the record that was once supposed to be a great rock opera by Pink Floyd. It has way too many words, a single tempo, and very few instrumental sections. The narrative tends to veer off course and is too cryptic to make any kind of sense. Not to mention that "The Wall" is deemed to be quite badly constructed when compared to the band's best moments.

After all these years, someone finally puts into words just why The Wall has never completely resonated with this listener, despite enjoying most of the band's other albums. Thank you for saying it best!

I should mention my "far-best song" on the album has always been the really exciting "Run Like Hell".
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^ I have loved The Wall and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway has been by far the most important album released by Genesis to me -- Trespass is my second favourite. It was searching for (to discover its identity) the short instrumental "Hairless Heart" which I heard playing in a playhouse bar in the 90s that led to me really exploring Prog on the internet.
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:


It's clear that the live CD "Is There Anybody Out There?" is the better choice because it effectively conveys the spirit of Pink Floyd more than the studio version.

I agree with this. I like that live album better than the studio version of The Wall. The one thing that live album did for me that I had not really noticed in the past was that Rick Wright's contributions to the Pink Floyd sound are more significant than I had initially realized. I don't think Rick gets the credit he deserves, not necessarily for the songwriting, but his contribution to the their overall sound.

I also tend to agree with some of your other comments. Rock operas are wordy beasts and sometimes they need to breathe with extended instrumental sections. That's something I wish they had done with The Wall. Sure, they could've scaled it back to one LP, but that doesn't make it any less dense. It just needed less words and more instrumental sections that duplicated the emotions they wanted to present. My major criticism with Waters is I feel he could get his points off better by being more concise. He had a pretty good track record of that up until The Wall. Having said that, I too have similar faults and regret some of the pieces of music I've made in my past. It's a fine line determining on how much is too much.

But hey, this might just be me. I have similar issues with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. And lots of people love that album too.
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I don't care how others rate Pink Floyd's The Wall, I love it, think it's a masterpiece in its own right, and it has meant more to me than any The Who album (and I used to love The Who). The gatefold sleeve is something that appealed to me when I was a child (found it quite naughty like a Mad magazine) -- I don't usually care much about cover art, but I liked to draw that cover in high school (I am not a great artist but I could do that well with a ruler and pencil). I like its uniqueness in Pink Floyd's discography, is the last Pink Floyd album I care about, and I think Pink Floyd has many excellent albums. It isn't an album I play much now, but that's because I know it so very well. When I got into certain moods in my younger adulthood, this was perfect:



Edited by Logan - April 11 2024 at 18:25
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


It's always funny when someone comes along and trashes a legitimate masterpiece. It's fine to say "it's not for me", but to call it "mediocre" is simply revealing a lack of experience and/or objectivity, with a little bit of hubris on top.

As Wikipedia puts it: "The Wall is one of the best-known concept albums. With over 30 million copies sold, it is the second best-selling album in the band's catalogue (behind 1973's The Dark Side of the Moon), the best selling double-album of all time, and one of the best-selling albums of all time overall."
Aside from the disco-music-based song that was (is) the biggest hit from the album, "The Wall" has too many theatrical moments for Pink Floyd, IMO.


It's a rock opera. It's supposed to be theatrical. 


I am well aware that it is a concept album. Though, as a fan of Pink Floyd, I don't think that dramatic rock opera is the kind of material that matches the band well. There are just too many theatrical songs, such as "Vera," "Nobody Home," "Bring the Boys Back Home," and so on. Pink Floyd is not The Who, and Roger Waters is not the rock opera master Pete Townshend, who wrote "Tommy" (actually twice; the original 1969 album, and five years later he rewrote the complete opera for the Tommy Soundtrack) and "Quadrophenia," which, both on their own, could have been called the perfect 2-LP rock operas. Unlike "Tommy" and "Quadrophenia," whose duration goes by in a flash, "The Wall" is too elephantine and really mediocre, and the mediocre sleeve design only reinforces the impression of the album's mediocrity. Waters is far too dominant on the album, which is basically his offspring; the entire thing is told in a whiny, life-story-telling style by Waters, which only makes the album mundane and dull. 
Isn't it bitter that "Comfortably Numb," composed by David Gilmour, is the far-best song on "The Wall"? It's the fact that Gilmour hasn’t written many songs at all for Pink Floyd since 1972. The album is indeed boring and uninteresting, mostly due to Waters' overpowering presence, and "The Wall" could have been far better as a single LP. Probably then "The Wall" could have been in the rank of "Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young to Die!"—the nice concept album by Jethro Tull that was released three years before "The Wall."

The fact that Roger Waters has something "big" to say is another aspect of the issue. Because of this, he occasionally pushes the music to the back burner in favour of using it to air his complaints and express his rather pathetic beliefs. "The Wall," Waters' "child," amounted to nothing more than a two-faced justification for exaggerated self-pity. 

There are a few infrequent, lighter moments, like the unexpected smash single "Another Brick in the Wall Part 2." Except for that disco-music-based song and David Gilmour's "Comfortably Numb," there isn't any real excitement on the record that was once supposed to be a great rock opera by Pink Floyd. It has way too many words, a single tempo, and very few instrumental sections. The narrative tends to veer off course and is too cryptic to make any kind of sense. Not to mention that "The Wall" is deemed to be quite badly constructed when compared to the band's best moments.

It's clear that the live CD "Is There Anybody Out There?" is the better choice because it effectively conveys the spirit of Pink Floyd more than the studio version.


Edited by Moyan - April 11 2024 at 18:11
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^ i just look at it as a totally different beast with no need to compare to past efforts. As a stand alone it works for me. I realize not everyone feels the same :)

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


It's always funny when someone comes along and trashes a legitimate masterpiece. It's fine to say "it's not for me", but to call it "mediocre" is simply revealing a lack of experience and/or objectivity, with a little bit of hubris on top.

As Wikipedia puts it: "The Wall is one of the best-known concept albums. With over 30 million copies sold, it is the second best-selling album in the band's catalogue (behind 1973's The Dark Side of the Moon), the best selling double-album of all time, and one of the best-selling albums of all time overall."
Aside from the disco-music-based song that was (is) the biggest hit from the album, "The Wall" has too many theatrical moments for Pink Floyd, IMO.


It's a rock opera. It's supposed to be theatrical. I just listened to it for the first time in years. It maintains my  5 star rating.




I'm not sure myself. Waters was deadly serious at the time when interviewed and discussing it and didn't present it this way. I was a massive fan of it at the time and still regard it as important to me personally in helping me through a time that was not easy. However it hasn't aged well to my ears and now seems a country mile behind Dark Side Of The Moon or Animals
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


It's always funny when someone comes along and trashes a legitimate masterpiece. It's fine to say "it's not for me", but to call it "mediocre" is simply revealing a lack of experience and/or objectivity, with a little bit of hubris on top.

As Wikipedia puts it: "The Wall is one of the best-known concept albums. With over 30 million copies sold, it is the second best-selling album in the band's catalogue (behind 1973's The Dark Side of the Moon), the best selling double-album of all time, and one of the best-selling albums of all time overall."
Aside from the disco-music-based song that was (is) the biggest hit from the album, "The Wall" has too many theatrical moments for Pink Floyd, IMO.


It's a rock opera. It's supposed to be theatrical. I just listened to it for the first time in years. It maintains my  5 star rating.


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Cover art for The Future Bites by Steven Wilson

I'm listening to this now. The music is good but the cover leaves a lot to be desired.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ The Wall is a masterpiece, I'm rarely getting back to it these days solely because there is so much music to listen to. Which is not a bad problem to have Smile


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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


It's always funny when someone comes along and trashes a legitimate masterpiece. It's fine to say "it's not for me", but to call it "mediocre" is simply revealing a lack of experience and/or objectivity, with a little bit of hubris on top.

As Wikipedia puts it: "The Wall is one of the best-known concept albums. With over 30 million copies sold, it is the second best-selling album in the band's catalogue (behind 1973's The Dark Side of the Moon), the best selling double-album of all time, and one of the best-selling albums of all time overall."
Aside from the disco-music-based song that was (is) the biggest hit from the album, "The Wall" has too many theatrical moments for Pink Floyd, IMO.
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I never said the sleeve design is exceptional.
You said it wasn't mediocre. Someone would assume that you think that "The Wall" sleeve design is something more than mediocre; let's say "exceptional."

Quote
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

"The Wall" sleeve design would go well with a thread headed "A mediocre cover art of a mediocre yet terribly overrated album."

I don't think the cover art is bad or mediocre, 

There's a long way between "not mediocre" and "exceptional". LOL 

Okay, but then what level above mediocre is that, according to you? LOL

You surely like to argue. Ouch
How about "good"? Is it ok that i think it's "good". May I have that?! 
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Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I was only talking about the art-work. Smile
Actually, you agreed with me that the album is overrated:

Quote
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

"The Wall" sleeve design would go well with a thread headed "A mediocre cover art of a mediocre yet terribly overrated album."
I agree it's an overrated album. I rarely get back to it these days. 


Yes, I agreed the album was overrated, but disagreed the art-work is mediocre and bad. 

OK, let's stop here, I don't see the point of arguing. You dislike the art-work, I like it. So be it. I'm fine with that. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I never said the sleeve design is exceptional.
You said it wasn't mediocre. Someone would assume that you think that "The Wall" sleeve design is something more than mediocre; let's say "exceptional."

Quote
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

"The Wall" sleeve design would go well with a thread headed "A mediocre cover art of a mediocre yet terribly overrated album."

I don't think the cover art is bad or mediocre, 

There's a long way between "not mediocre" and "exceptional". LOL 

Okay, but then what level above mediocre is that, according to you? LOL
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I was only talking about the art-work. Smile
Actually, you agreed with me that the album is overrated:

Quote
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Moyan Moyan wrote:

"The Wall" sleeve design would go well with a thread headed "A mediocre cover art of a mediocre yet terribly overrated album."
I agree it's an overrated album. I rarely get back to it these days. 
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I like the whole thing [The Wall], I don't find it mediocre, that's all I said.  

It's always funny when someone comes along and trashes a legitimate masterpiece. It's fine to say "it's not for me", but to call it "mediocre" is simply revealing a lack of experience and/or objectivity, with a little bit of hubris on top.

As Wikipedia puts it: "The Wall is one of the best-known concept albums. With over 30 million copies sold, it is the second best-selling album in the band's catalogue (behind 1973's The Dark Side of the Moon), the best selling double-album of all time, and one of the best-selling albums of all time overall."

I was only talking about the art-work. Smile

I was referring to Moyan, who implied that The Wall was a mediocre record.

You quoted me though, that was confusing. LOL
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