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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 02 2023 at 07:45
^ (I know you’re asking Cristi but) I guess scaring someone away from parts of a selection of 50 songs is almost unavoidable. But with a diverse list such as yours, no one predisposed to enjoy prog would be scared away from prog as such. And that’s the essential bit. That’s why I think it’s a great list. I would have been scared away from neo prog/prog metal, ELP and The Nice..., but that would have been bound to happen anyway. I’d still love quite a few of these, and at least enjoy 35-40 songs in total. This list would have provided me with more than twenty new favorite bands to investigate further and I would have been thankful for the rest of my life. 


Edited by Saperlipopette! - December 02 2023 at 12:59
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Lumenko Lumenko wrote:

The following selection is listed in no particular order.
Island "Empty Bottles"
Egg "The Song of McGuillicudie the Pusillanimous (or Don't Worry James, Your Socks Are Hanging in the Coal Cellar with Thomas)"
Yes "The Gates of Delirium"
Genesis "Mad Man Moon"
Jethro Tull "Aqualung"
Van der Graaf Generator "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers"
King Crimson "The Court of the Crimson King"
Family "The Weaver's Answer"
Gong  "Wingful of Eyes"
Marillion "Ocean Song"
The Nice "Diary of an Empty Day"
Emerson Lake & Palmer "Karn Evil 9"
Caravan "Where but for Caravan Would I?"
The Soft Machine "Hibou, Anemone and Bear"
Khan "Mixed Up Man of The Mountain"
Hatfield and the North  "Shaving Is Boring"
Supersister "A Girl Named You"
Moving Gelatine Plates "The World Of Genius Hans"
Steve Hillage "Lunar Musick Suite"
Picchio Dal Pozzo "Seppia"
Cos "L'Idiot Leon"
Gentle Giant "The Boys in the Band"
Steve Hackett "Shadow of the Hierophant"
Peter Hammill "Forsaken Gardens"
Anthony Phillips "The Geese and the Ghost"
Camel "Lawrence"
Renaissance "Touching Once (Is So Hard to Keep)"
Premiata Forneria Marconi "Appena Un Poco"
Smak "Put od balona"
Ange "Dignité"
Flamengo "Pár století"
England "Poisoned Youth"
Indexi "Blago"
Touch "Seventy Five"
Korni Grupa "Not an Ordinary Life"
Spirit "Space Child"
Galaad "Sabličre"
Spring "Golden Fleece"
IQ " Further Away"
Split Enz "Under The Wheel"
Circus "The Bandsman"
Mike Oldfield "Ommadawn (Part Two)"
Time "Za koji život treba da se rodim"
Saga "To Whom It Concerns"
Il Balletto di Bronzo "Introduzione"
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention "Inca Roads"
SBB "Wolanie O Brzek Szkta" 
Aphrodite's Child "Aegian Sea"
Hawkwind "Magnu"
Dream Theater "In the Name of God"

You might scare some people away with some of those songs. 
Which songs exactly from my selection would scare a supposed newbie, in your opinion?
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(technical difficulties ) 

Edited by Lumenko - December 02 2023 at 07:12
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^ Looks like you missed the point again.
The only point he's ever had is the one atop his head.
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^ Looks like you missed the point again.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...
Coming from a classical background to prog, makes prog less of a challenge. Some classical music aficionados might even dismiss all of progressive rock as a banal abomination, and hurries back to Bach's Cello Suites after having been exposed to something like Tarkus.
...

Hi,

I'm not sure about that ... my sister was into pop music and classical music, and I think she eventually quit the symphony and classical music, because it wasn't fun, and the folks that played it, only did 5 pieces of music (so to speak) and the harp was there ... for show ... not for the music and its use.

We had, at home over 2K albums of classical music with at least 50 to 60 operas. My dad was well known for writing poems to various music pieces. They are all published. And one day, I brought on Tomita ... Snowflakes ... and dad heard 5 minutes of it, and said ... it's cute and turned and went back to his typewriter. It was a month later that mom said he was listening to the LP again, and that he liked, but was surprised to see it done by synthesizers. And he had the German electronic folks in his collection, which in my book always used the instrument differently.

TARKUS is a touch choice for anyone ... you might ... FIRST ... play the Rachel Flowers piano version and let the person evaluate it and then play the original, and explain, at the time music professors would not give a good grade to youngsters if Keith came up and said ... look I got a piano concerto ... he would get a C for some transitions and what could be perceived as a lack of continuity (theme) in the piece.

So he makes it in the place that ended up killing the sales of classical music because of jackasses and professors that did not understand music beyond the notes and chords! And after all these years of LP's hearing different versions of the same piece by different conductors ... it's like the English idiots upset that the theater department is doing Shakespeare and they do not do the iambic pentabuttmeter like they are supposed to ... a modern version of Willie is not allowed ... it is considered an insult to the art form. And they spend their time telling you all the faults in Zeffirelli's version ... etc ... etc ... 

I don't know if there is an answer ... I don't think there is. What one person ends up with or not, is all over the place ... and not something that we can define or compartmentalize.

In the end, you are following what Peter Michael Hamel suggests ... that no musically uneducated person would ever know music and be able to understand some other piece of music ... beyond the songs they like! 

And I'm not sure that is a good measure to decide, define the OP.
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Originally posted by Lumenko Lumenko wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

MzBT is the greatest SBB song ever IMHO, but it's not a good starting point for a non-prog listener.
I believe that we should start with demanding treatments. One will like it or not. 

ZSBdC is catchier and grabs your ear from the get go while MzBT is a grower, and to fully appreciate its genius, you gotta listen to it carefully a bunch of times.
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^Careful. Mention Tarkus or radio, and we'll get the Rachel Flowers comment or the AM/FM radio bit and the Guy Guden shoutout. Left yourself open to that one.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
I only really bothered to read the first bit tbh,
...
I'm thinking that if someone is into classical music then it wouldn't be hard to get them interested in prog. 
...

Hi,

That someone into classical would be interested in prog ... is an assumption. It has no basis in reality. I, basically, told me, the story as I experienced. There is no accounting for tastes and what clicks in someone's mind, despite us thinking that some bits and pieces of the definition of the music is "it".
I think you're missing the point. As you do so often. Coming from a classical background to prog, makes prog less of a challenge. Some classical music aficionados might even dismiss all of progressive rock as a banal abomination, and hurries back to Bach's Cello Suites after having been exposed to something like Tarkus. Someone into classical music/opera is already used to listening to music that is more advanced, ambitious - that takes it's time. But the majority that stumble over something progressive, come from the real world (=their parents do not own thousands of books and classical records) where most people rarely know anything but three or four minute long pop/rock tunes + all the crap you hear on radio.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
I only really bothered to read the first bit tbh,
...
I'm thinking that if someone is into classical music then it wouldn't be hard to get them interested in prog. 
...

Hi,

That someone into classical would be interested in prog ... is an assumption. It has no basis in reality. I, basically, told me, the story as I experienced. There is no accounting for tastes and what clicks in someone's mind, despite us thinking that some bits and pieces of the definition of the music is "it". 

As for reading, it's your choice. But when you don't take an interest in the actual subject matter that pertains to the OP ... I would like to think/suggest that your answer, while valid to a point, is incomplete.

That's a real shame ... here we talk about "progressive" and "prog", music that is about a different thought and ability, and some new creativity, and when someone expresses the same creative sentiment, the desire to find out what exactly is it about, is gone. 

So much for "progressive" and "prog" ... it's just another song. Cry
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^ For me it was 'Meddle' and the live sides of 'Ummagumma' that got me hooked into prog.
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What got me into prog was Manfred Mann's Earth Band's Watch album, and though I was probably ready for it anyway and it would have got me in other ways if not for this one, I still think MMEB's work between Solar Fire and Watch is both nicely accessible but also has some key elements that show that there's more to music than just verse and chorus and what makes you dance. One could start with Davy's On The Road Again (although my first favourite was Chicago Institute) or Visionary Mountains and Spirits in the Night from Nightingales and Bombers.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I wouldn't pick any longs songs (over 10 minutes at all)
...
Genesis - A Trick Of The Tail (the whole thing). Perfect introduction to prog. Melodic and no noodling or overlog tracks.
...

Hi,

I'm not sure that length is such a problem as we can imagine. I've never heard of anyone saying "noodling" to Beethoven, Mozart or Tchaikovsky. Music is music, and it has a different feeling and idea for different listeners. In my case I started with classical music at 10/11 and rock music came later. I had no aversion to long material and was already enjoying things like opera ... and it was all beautiful material, regardless of noodling ... I suppose we could consider Piccini guilty in Turandot for using 3 stooges for one minute, but in the end, it might have been a leitmotif that was needed in the middle of heavy handed material.

Melodic ... my first Genesis listen and album, was ... SEBTP ... and it is probably the best of the albums ... specially if we let go the "idea" of what "progressive BS" is or isn't. I have never really met anyone that is into progressive music, and not into the rest of music at all ... that just seems wrong, and really sad to the music itself and its creators. We might as well brand them ... a bit sick in my book!

Considering that I have been with Guy Guden and Space Pirate Radio from the early days as roommate from 1972 on, and then on the first SPR show in January 1974 ... over almost 50 years, the number of folks that have loved the show and heard the different material is so out there ... and so far and away in this galaxy, it's not even funny. But, it's there ... and the only thing it says is that it is about the music ... and music ... and music ... and it doesn't matter what kind it is ... nowadays, folks can even hear some Miles ... and a backwards Herb Alpert ,,, but in the end, what attracts you to it is some sound that clicks with your imagination, and not my choice or anyone else's ... we might think otherwise, but it's really hard to say that we are simply listing our favorites ... we're not even taking into consideration what the projective listener likes and listens to ... heck my sister played for the Symphony in Santa Barbara (Harp!!!) ... and I was hoping to have her listen to some jazz and rock with it, so it was "viable" instead of a freak instrument so big that it was a pain in the arse to bring in to the symphony! Nope. Never ... and she was the one that brought Alan Stivell from France and blew my ears on it in 1971 ... a couple of years later, she quit playing all along, and never returned to music! 

Again, based on the incredible history of Space Pirate Radio, anything we think will sound ... off key when its time comes ... and the person looks away and doesn't even bother listening to 3 or 4 measures!

PS: One funny bit. You know one thing that was an ear turner in Guy's shows? ... I mention it all the time, but you guys wouldn't believe me ... stuff played backwards, that was ... what is that? ... and nothing gets your attention better than one of those moments ... you have no idea what this is when you have not heard any of it ... unless you pay attention to TD and EF had a few effects hidden in there, or realize that what Vangelis just did was use t-spoons! In all of his albums!!!!! 

I only really bothered to read the first bit tbh,

I'm thinking that if someone is into classical music then it wouldn't be hard to get them interested in prog. 
I suspect this thread is aimed more at people that have less exposure to music generally. Admittedly it's not clear at all. It's going to be your experience and radio does help. My gateway to prog was probably hearing Seven Seas Of Rye played on the radio. It was revelatory to me. I wanted more stuff like that! 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I always thought Supertramp's Crime of the Century album as a good gateway album for introducing prog.


I kinda agree, I listened to it long ago, I did not even know what prog or progressive rock or art rock was. It was just an album from the 70s, from 1974. I thought it was quite original and I enjoyed it a lot. I still do. Tongue


This is one of those albums that I really must give a listen to….
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Here is another possible route, this time to symphonic prog:
1. Try Boz Scaggs' Lido Shuffle. See if they take interest to the arpeggiated keyboard solo.
2. If they do, try Electric Light Orchestra's Daybreaker. This is essentially a very similar arpeggiated Minimoog riff that is the central piece of a short instrumental. 
3. If that is a hit, then try Firth of Fifth. If they like that, they'll probably enjoy most of the symphonic prog genre. Having said that, I'm still not sure the jump from Daybreaker to Firth of Fifth is too much of a jump or not.

Another possible pop song that could kick things off is Toto's Rosanna (specifically the keyboard/guitar solo part of the song).

Every individual is going to be different. Some need baby steps, some will take to prog immediately.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I wouldn't pick any longs songs (over 10 minutes at all)
...
Genesis - A Trick Of The Tail (the whole thing). Perfect introduction to prog. Melodic and no noodling or overlog tracks.
...

Hi,

I'm not sure that length is such a problem as we can imagine. I've never heard of anyone saying "noodling" to Beethoven, Mozart or Tchaikovsky. Music is music, and it has a different feeling and idea for different listeners. In my case I started with classical music at 10/11 and rock music came later. I had no aversion to long material and was already enjoying things like opera ... and it was all beautiful material, regardless of noodling ... I suppose we could consider Piccini guilty in Turandot for using 3 stooges for one minute, but in the end, it might have been a leitmotif that was needed in the middle of heavy handed material.

Melodic ... my first Genesis listen and album, was ... SEBTP ... and it is probably the best of the albums ... specially if we let go the "idea" of what "progressive BS" is or isn't. I have never really met anyone that is into progressive music, and not into the rest of music at all ... that just seems wrong, and really sad to the music itself and its creators. We might as well brand them ... a bit sick in my book!

Considering that I have been with Guy Guden and Space Pirate Radio from the early days as roommate from 1972 on, and then on the first SPR show in January 1974 ... over almost 50 years, the number of folks that have loved the show and heard the different material is so out there ... and so far and away in this galaxy, it's not even funny. But, it's there ... and the only thing it says is that it is about the music ... and music ... and music ... and it doesn't matter what kind it is ... nowadays, folks can even hear some Miles ... and a backwards Herb Alpert ,,, but in the end, what attracts you to it is some sound that clicks with your imagination, and not my choice or anyone else's ... we might think otherwise, but it's really hard to say that we are simply listing our favorites ... we're not even taking into consideration what the projective listener likes and listens to ... heck my sister played for the Symphony in Santa Barbara (Harp!!!) ... and I was hoping to have her listen to some jazz and rock with it, so it was "viable" instead of a freak instrument so big that it was a pain in the arse to bring in to the symphony! Nope. Never ... and she was the one that brought Alan Stivell from France and blew my ears on it in 1971 ... a couple of years later, she quit playing all along, and never returned to music! 

Again, based on the incredible history of Space Pirate Radio, anything we think will sound ... off key when its time comes ... and the person looks away and doesn't even bother listening to 3 or 4 measures!

PS: One funny bit. You know one thing that was an ear turner in Guy's shows? ... I mention it all the time, but you guys wouldn't believe me ... stuff played backwards, that was ... what is that? ... and nothing gets your attention better than one of those moments ... you have no idea what this is when you have not heard any of it ... unless you pay attention to TD and EF had a few effects hidden in there, or realize that what Vangelis just did was use t-spoons! In all of his albums!!!!! 


Edited by moshkito - November 30 2023 at 05:14
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Songs don't get you into prog - prog finds you and swirls around you, and once you're hooked there is no escape.
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

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I would probably recommend this 3CD compilation. Smile

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Originally posted by Lumenko Lumenko wrote:

The following selection is listed in no particular order.
Island "Empty Bottles"
Egg "The Song of McGuillicudie the Pusillanimous (or Don't Worry James, Your Socks Are Hanging in the Coal Cellar with Thomas)"
Yes "The Gates of Delirium"
Genesis "Mad Man Moon"
Jethro Tull "Aqualung"
Van der Graaf Generator "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers"
King Crimson "The Court of the Crimson King"
Family "The Weaver's Answer"
Gong  "Wingful of Eyes"
Marillion "Ocean Song"
The Nice "Diary of an Empty Day"
Emerson Lake & Palmer "Karn Evil 9"
Caravan "Where but for Caravan Would I?"
The Soft Machine "Hibou, Anemone and Bear"
Khan "Mixed Up Man of The Mountain"
Hatfield and the North  "Shaving Is Boring"
Supersister "A Girl Named You"
Moving Gelatine Plates "The World Of Genius Hans"
Steve Hillage "Lunar Musick Suite"
Picchio Dal Pozzo "Seppia"
Cos "L'Idiot Leon"
Gentle Giant "The Boys in the Band"
Steve Hackett "Shadow of the Hierophant"
Peter Hammill "Forsaken Gardens"
Anthony Phillips "The Geese and the Ghost"
Camel "Lawrence"
Renaissance "Touching Once (Is So Hard to Keep)"
Premiata Forneria Marconi "Appena Un Poco"
Smak "Put od balona"
Ange "Dignité"
Flamengo "Pár století"
England "Poisoned Youth"
Indexi "Blago"
Touch "Seventy Five"
Korni Grupa "Not an Ordinary Life"
Spirit "Space Child"
Galaad "Sabličre"
Spring "Golden Fleece"
IQ " Further Away"
Split Enz "Under The Wheel"
Circus "The Bandsman"
Mike Oldfield "Ommadawn (Part Two)"
Time "Za koji život treba da se rodim"
Saga "To Whom It Concerns"
Il Balletto di Bronzo "Introduzione"
Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention "Inca Roads"
SBB "Wolanie O Brzek Szkta" 
Aphrodite's Child "Aegian Sea"
Hawkwind "Magnu"
Dream Theater "In the Name of God"

You might scare some people away with some of those songs. 
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I wouldn't pick any longs songs (over 10 minutes at all)

I think a great ELP track for getting anyone acclimatised or interested in prog is the track Trilogy. Its starts off all melodic and quiet and when you're hooked in goes all 'techno' and the synth takes over. You are either totally in or out at this point or at least curious if nothing else!

Either that or The Yes Album , the three longer tracks are perfect.

King Crimson - only the debut and stick with side one only!

Genesis - A Trick Of The Tail (the whole thing). Perfect introduction to prog. Melodic and no noodling or overlog tracks.

On the metal side of things go for Stargazer by Rainbow. That blew me away as a 15 year old when I first heard it. 
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