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Three best and worst years for prog

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nick_h_nz View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 05 2022 at 01:15
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I don't think you can top 1969-1975 for prog rock, and 1971-1973 is in the epicenter of that era. You can try to argue otherwise, but you would be wrong. And that's okay. I will defend your right to be wrong. Just don't expect me to agree. 

I certainly won't disagree with you!

However, the question I've always asked is WHY?  What was it in those years that made such an amazing period of musical performance? 

Was it youth and enthusiasm?  Introduction to new instruments (synth, Mellotron, devices)?  The drugs? 

I think it was a blend of those three!! 

However, for all the high quality, I find it odd that women were largely left out of the formula from 1971-73.  Annie Haslam being the lonely exception.  Even today, we don't have nearly as many women in prog as I think we should have...they can bring remarkable energy, instrumental skills and passion! 

The women in prog back in the day definitely stood out, and we possibly had to, because they were in a minority. But prog is nowhere near the male-dominated domain it once was. If it appears so, still, that is possibly more an indication of which genres of prog one listens to, rather than a lack of women in prog. This forum is rather male-heavy, but I think that is down to the type of medium. As I have said before, this sort of forum is rather outdated (even though it serves a purpose), and a lot of people simply won’t visit this sort of forum when they can get the interaction they want from social media. Any FB prog group or page I’ve frequented has had a good deal of female participation. On FB, at least, the stereotypical old man prog fan is effectively a dinosaur that is nearing extinction, and which tend to meet in their own groups where they can be the echo chamber they desire.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2022 at 01:07
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I don't think you can top 1969-1975 for prog rock, and 1971-1973 is in the epicenter of that era. You can try to argue otherwise, but you would be wrong. And that's okay. I will defend your right to be wrong. Just don't expect me to agree. 

I’m not sure anyone is trying to argue otherwise, if looked at objectively, and in terms of impact, innovation and influence. But I think many people here are sharing what are the best and worst years FOR THEM, which is quite independent of what are recognised as the best years, if we attempt objectivity (without getting into that messy debate AGAIN).

Ian made me take another look at the ranking I gave (for me!), when he spoke about percentage of collection by year. And that really does indicate the objective over the subjective, as while it might appear that the 2000s are better years than the 1970s, that’s looking only at the prog albums (as per the PA top 100) in my collection. If I look at my entire collection, the 1970s appear better than the 2000s, simply because almost the entirety of my 1970s albums are prog, while prog makes up only a tiny portion of my 2000s albums.

So, again, I think most people will agree the best prog years FOR PROG were the ones you specify, regardless of personal preference - but the best prog years FOR THEM are likely to highly different and individual.

As for worst prog years, I think objectively it probably is somewhere in the mid to late 1980s, where (regardless of how good any prog released at that time might be), prog simply wasn’t important or impactful in the mainstream.

The 2000s have seen a renaissance for prog, though - so that much even if it can never make the impact it did in the 1970s, it has a relevance and popularity that is second only to the 1970s. And, for this reason, the best years for prog for many will be….now!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 21:26
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

However, for all the high quality, I find it odd that women were largely left out of the formula from 1971-73.  Annie Haslam being the lonely exception.   

Grace Slick was also doing some great stuff in this period, culminating in "Manhole", which was recorded in '73 and released in January '74.


Edited by Hugh Manatee - April 04 2022 at 21:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 20:59
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I don't think you can top 1969-1975 for prog rock, and 1971-1973 is in the epicenter of that era. You can try to argue otherwise, but you would be wrong. And that's okay. I will defend your right to be wrong. Just don't expect me to agree. 

I certainly won't disagree with you!

However, the question I've always asked is WHY?  What was it in those years that made such an amazing period of musical performance? 

Was it youth and enthusiasm?  Introduction to new instruments (synth, Mellotron, devices)?  The drugs? 

I think it was a blend of those three!! 

However, for all the high quality, I find it odd that women were largely left out of the formula from 1971-73.  Annie Haslam being the lonely exception.  Even today, we don't have nearly as many women in prog as I think we should have...they can bring remarkable energy, instrumental skills and passion! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 16:01
I don't think you can top 1969-1975 for prog rock, and 1971-1973 is in the epicenter of that era. You can try to argue otherwise, but you would be wrong. And that's okay. I will defend your right to be wrong. Just don't expect me to agree. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 15:44
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Interesting approach, I'm intrigued, my version was pretty easy to check as I just had to write a quick check against my database of my collection in excel and run the numbers versus checking each years top 100 on PA. I'm now wondering what this would generate for me. I may be back.

I don’t have a database of my collection, so I’d have to go through all my CDs and downloads to find the years of release. I knew the approach I took was not going to be 100% reliable or accurate, and would still take some time, but it still seemed the “easiest” way to go about it. 🤷🏻‍♂️


So what I discovered is that prog collection diverted from the mainstream pretty much once the classic period was over

In the 70's I averaged 25 top 100 albums per year with the peak being 72-75 with 30% each year. Around 55% of my 70's collection is top 100 albums.

The 80's and 90's were pretty fallow averaging 8 top 100 albums per year in a period where I have 400 albums. So around 40% of my stuff is actually top 100. So I wasn't finding anything anywhere else either.

From 2000's forward I average 12 top 100 albums per year in a period with 1200 albums. So the percentage of top 100 albums in this period has dropped to 20%.

When you put it that way, my results somewhere above are quite misleading. Because I am probably fairly similar percentage wise. Almost all of the ‘70s music in my collection is prog. But only a small proportion of my collection is prog when it comes to the music of any of the decades following.

But I guess that doesn’t change the idea of which years were best for me. As great as the ‘70s are, there’s so much more I enjoy from today’s music.

I think the ultimate answer is one so many have already given, including myself, and that is that there are no worst years for prog. There are just some years that don’t cater for personal preferences as much as others.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 15:36
Originally posted by Boojieboy Boojieboy wrote:

Best three: 1972, 1974, 1975
Worst: 2022, 2021, 2020.
LOL

By my method of deciding the best and worst years for me, 2022 is shaping up to be a great year. We’re only a quarter of the way in, and it’s already better than than 23 other years between 1969 and now!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 15:34
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Interesting approach, I'm intrigued, my version was pretty easy to check as I just had to write a quick check against my database of my collection in excel and run the numbers versus checking each years top 100 on PA. I'm now wondering what this would generate for me. I may be back.

I don’t have a database of my collection, so I’d have to go through all my CDs and downloads to find the years of release. I knew the approach I took was not going to be 100% reliable or accurate, and would still take some time, but it still seemed the “easiest” way to go about it. 🤷🏻‍♂️


So what I discovered is that prog collection diverted from the mainstream pretty much once the classic period was over

In the 70's I averaged 25 top 100 albums per year with the peak being 72-75 with 30% each year. Around 55% of my 70's collection is top 100 albums.

The 80's and 90's were pretty fallow averaging 8 top 100 albums per year in a period where I have 400 albums. So around 40% of my stuff is actually top 100. So I wasn't finding anything anywhere else either.

From 2000's forward I average 12 top 100 albums per year in a period with 1200 albums. So the percentage of top 100 albums in this period has dropped to 20%.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 15:20
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Best years for classical music = The Baroque period (1580–1750)

Best years for prog music = all of them.  I've found excellent music in each year! 

Symphonic dried up a bit after the 1970s, but jazz-rock fusion really took off.  I saw amazing live shows by Al Dimeola, Pat Metheny and others in the late 1980s/early 1990s.  Some artists like Fripp amazed me with projects like SoundScapes. 

Yeah! I guess a lot of people here just listen to symph.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 15:17
Best three: 1972, 1974, 1975
Worst: 2022, 2021, 2020.
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 14:53
Best years for classical music = The Baroque period (1580–1750)

Best years for prog music = all of them.  I've found excellent music in each year! 

Symphonic dried up a bit after the 1970s, but jazz-rock fusion really took off.  I saw amazing live shows by Al Dimeola, Pat Metheny and others in the late 1980s/early 1990s.  Some artists like Fripp amazed me with projects like SoundScapes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 13:01
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Interesting approach, I'm intrigued, my version was pretty easy to check as I just had to write a quick check against my database of my collection in excel and run the numbers versus checking each years top 100 on PA. I'm now wondering what this would generate for me. I may be back.

I don’t have a database of my collection, so I’d have to go through all my CDs and downloads to find the years of release. I knew the approach I took was not going to be 100% reliable or accurate, and would still take some time, but it still seemed the “easiest” way to go about it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 12:38
Interesting approach, I'm intrigued, my version was pretty easy to check as I just had to write a quick check against my database of my collection in excel and run the numbers versus checking each years top 100 on PA. I'm now wondering what this would generate for me. I may be back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 12:16
in a complete waste of time, I went through the top 100 for each year from 1969 until this year on PA, and worked out how many albums from each year I own. That completely ignores prog albums from that year that are not in the top 100, and I noticed many absences from my collection in the top 100s. But I figure it worked out as a rough guide to which years I found popular, even if it will never be as accurate as actually going through my collection. But that would have taken far more time than this did.

So here is my ranking of best to worst years of prog. Not that I really think of them as beat or worst. But for the purposes of this post….

1 2015

2= 2020

2= 2016

4= 2019

4= 2018

4= 2017

4= 2013

4= 1973

9= 2011

9= 2010

9= 1972


12= 2021

12= 2014

12= 2009

12= 2008

16 2012

17= 2007

17= 2006

19 1974

20 2005


21 1975

22 1971

23= 2003

23= 2002

23= 1999

26= 1976

26= 1970

26= 1969

29= 2004

29= 2001


31= 2022

31= 1997

33= 2000

33= 1998

33= 1996

33= 1995

37 1977

38 1994

39 1982


40= 1993

40= 1992

40= 1989

40= 1980

40= 1979

45= 1981

45= 1978

47= 1991

47= 1986

47= 1985

47= 1984


51 1990

52= 1988

52= 1987

52= 1983




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 10:29
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


Worst: 85 until 90 PinchPinchPinch

Depends who you ask. 85 to 90 saw the creation and developing (for lack of a better word) of the progressive metal genre, so not bad at all if you ask me.

That's right, buddy. Classic albums all around from the likes of Dream Theater, Fates Warning, King's X, Queensr˙che, Savatage and Watchtower.


I rest my case!!!!ApproveEvil Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 10:24
yeah I guess I agree that 1985-1989 were probably the worst.
The best?  lots of good stuff right through the 70s and since 1990, so, yes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 08:19
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Looking at my personal Gnosis rating's by year:-
Worst
1993 - 0 album with a 12 or above, 5 albums with 10 or 11
1987 - 1 album with a 12 or above, 3 albums with 10 or 11
1982 - 1 album with a 12 or above, 3 albums with 10 or 11

I knows what you mean: 
86/87/88, I don't even have a prog album above 10  (and I don't have any non-prog albums eitherLOL)

86 & 89, I've got two 11 & above


Edited by Sean Trane - April 04 2022 at 08:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 07:51
I'm not someone who generally really buys into best this or best that or worst this or that. All Prog years have produced great relevant music to my tastes, and excellent music that I don't care much for (I love 80s for RIO and various post-punk and experimental rock). That said, in terms of quantity in my collection, the early 70s probably would be hard to beat, I have found that post 80s, 1996 and 2016 are quite special to me. As for which early 70s, I will go with 1971 now.

1971 includes:
Serge Gainsbourg - Histoire de Melody Nelson (prog to me)
VdGG - Pawn Hearts
Can - tago Mago
Comus - First Utterance
Popol Vuh - In den Gärten Pharaos
Spirogyra - St. Radigunds
Jan Dukes de Grey - Mice and Rats in the Loft
Mgama - 1001 Degrees
Gentle Giant - Acquiring the Taste
Superister - To The Highest Bidder
Amon Düül II - Tanz...
Ash ra Tempel - st
Pink Floyd - Meddle
David Bowie - Hunky Dory (related anyway and one of my very favourite Bowie albums)
Alice Coltrane - Journey in Satchidananda (progressive anyway)
Faust - Faust
Earth & Fire - Song of the Marching Children
Funkadelic - Maggot Brain (related to me)
Ennio Morricone - Maddalena (a prog stretch) and
Una lucertola con la pelle di donna (maybe less of a stretch)
King Crimson - Islands

Were I to go for another early 70s year, or later 70s or 80s, I could list more than for 1996 and 2016, but I love these albums:

1996:

Swans - Soundtracks for the Blind
Art Zoyd - Faust* (*I list this as originally released in 1995, but this site and others seem to say otherwise)
Crrent 93 - All the Pretty Little Horses
Stereolab - Emperor Tomato Ketchup
Tortoise - Millions Now Living Will Never Die
Cardiacs - Sing to God

2016:

David Bowie - Blackstar
Swans - The Glowing Man
Radiohead - A Moon Shaped Pool
Bruno Pernadas - Those Who Throw Objects at the Crocodiles Will Be Asked to Retrieve Them (prog related enough to me)
Xiu Xiu - Plays the Music of Twin Peaks (prog related to me)
King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard - Nonagon Infinity

As for the worst years for Prog, well those would be the pre-proto Prog years perhaps, or the year they don't exist even if that sounds a bit glib and silly. I find gems every relevant year, but some years I have not explored as much (like the last three and certain years in the 90s and 2000s I don't have much of). Had I been more diligent with taking part in Mirakaze's year polls then I would have a better idea but I do find those quite time consuming to put together especially as I commonly like to create fresh lists each time due to changing tastes and what I still remember.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 07:32
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

nothing personal, though HugYing Yang
 
It's mostly to do with my personal experience and tastes, and the zeitgest of the times (especially the "sonics" of the late 80's), but I also do not appreciate either of those two forms of prog.

in general I loathed the era (almost buying no new releases) - which was fine with me since I was discovering 60's rock& jazz


I know it's not personal. EmbarrassedTongue

I understand how you ended up discovering 60s rock and jazz, 90s alternative which no one could escape back in the day (I've grown to dislike because of that) also made me go back to the 60s and 70s music. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2022 at 07:08
Looking at my personal Gnosis rating's by year:-

Best
1974 - 17 albums with a 12 or above, 4 with 14 or 15
1971 - 16 albums with a 12 or above, 5 with 14 or 15
1975 - 15 albums with a 12 or above, 6 with 14 or 15

Worst
1993 - 0 album with a 12 or above, 5 albums with 10 or 11
1987 - 1 album with a 12 or above, 3 albums with 10 or 11
1982 - 1 album with a 12 or above, 3 albums with 10 or 11



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