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Rottenprogger View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 11 2022 at 21:15
"Buy a book and get a free ticket to a riveting in-store performance by ASIA!" 

"On second thought I don't really need to read the latest Dean Koontz after all." 
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Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:

Back during that SILENT NATION tour across the USA, Geoff Downes posted a public blog about those shows... and many venues were tiny little clubs with disappointing attendance.   I remember he blatantly commented that he "needs to reassess the entire situation after the tour".   It all sounded quite bleak at the time.

"Tiny little clubs"...and bookstores! I read Geoff & John played to handfuls of people in a few Barnes & Noble or Borders on the east coast. That couldn't have been a morale booster. LOL
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Is there really speculation as to why the original Asia line-up reunited, and Downes left Payne in the dust!?

MONEY. LOL
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ Well I'm not sure that 2 different versions of the band could possibly exist

They have existed since the split happened. Payne has the right to play Asia's music, especially the songs he co-wrote. Asia featuring John Payne has released a few singles, an EP and an album. 

John Payne is also in a band called Dukes of the Orient. After the Asia split, he formed a project called GPS (Govan-Payne-Schellen plus help from Spock's Beard keybordist Ryo Okumoto), decent album, continued the sound of last Asia album back then, Silent Nation. 


Edited by Cristi - February 11 2022 at 02:47
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^ Well I'm not sure that 2 different versions of the band could possibly exist so I'm not sure what Downes could have done differently? I doubt it was 'nothing' and of course we have no idea of the relationship/music dynamic between the two of them. A band is not a family but if it was then the original members would be the blood relatives as I see it.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:


Ah, but it's like a Re-Tweet ...... Once you quote it, it becomes your problem too !   Ouch

And, yes, the Original Asia reunion shows did very well in the US.  
They didn't play huge arenas, but the tours were actually profitable.  

 

no, it's not like are-tweet, you did not quote it right, you made a bad edit. 

I was talking about the bad break-up of the Payne line-up, you were talking about concerts and tours, two different things. I understand why Downes did it, I just found rather appalling how he did it. 

Really?! Asia was never formed for artistic reasons or to achieve 'high art'. It was a commercial money making machine and not much else. The fact that Payne was upset when he never had anything to do with the original line up must mean he's quite a fragile character. Tagging along with other peoples creations can often lead to nowhere.

When Cozy Powell was unceremoniously dumped out of ELP to allow Palmer back in without any warning he can't have been happy either. The whole ELP/Yes/Asia axis through the 80's and beyond became very very much about money and not having any real reason to exist.

IMO


He did not tag along. Payne was Downes partner for 15 years, they did 5 albums together. Downes sacked that line-up out of the blue. Maybe he did reunite the original Asia for money, I'm not judging, what was shocking, even for me as a listener of their music, was how easy he got rid of his partnership with John Payne, like it was nothing. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:


Ah, but it's like a Re-Tweet ...... Once you quote it, it becomes your problem too !   Ouch

And, yes, the Original Asia reunion shows did very well in the US.  
They didn't play huge arenas, but the tours were actually profitable.  

 

no, it's not like are-tweet, you did not quote it right, you made a bad edit. 

I was talking about the bad break-up of the Payne line-up, you were talking about concerts and tours, two different things. I understand why Downes did it, I just found rather appalling how he did it. 

Really?! Asia was never formed for artistic reasons or to achieve 'high art'. It was a commercial money making machine and not much else. The fact that Payne was upset when he never had anything to do with the original line up must mean he's quite a fragile character. Tagging along with other peoples creations can often lead to nowhere.

When Cozy Powell was unceremoniously dumped out of ELP to allow Palmer back in without any warning he can't have been happy either. The whole ELP/Yes/Asia axis through the 80's and beyond became very very much about money and not having any real reason to exist.

IMO
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Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:


Ah, but it's like a Re-Tweet ...... Once you quote it, it becomes your problem too !   Ouch

And, yes, the Original Asia reunion shows did very well in the US.  
They didn't play huge arenas, but the tours were actually profitable.  

 

no, it's not like are-tweet, you did not quote it right, you made a bad edit. 

I was talking about the bad break-up of the Payne line-up, you were talking about concerts and tours, two different things. I understand why Downes did it, I just found rather appalling how he did it. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

You gotta learn to quote properly, mine is only the first sentence. 

Asia had a bigger audience in Europe and Japan. 
Did the original Asia reunited get a big audience in the US? I still have my doubts. 

Like I said, it's how he did that was shocking, one day he's in one line-up, the next he was with the other. The Payne line-up was in shock from what I read, especially John Payne, the whole thing was painful for him. 


Ah, but it's like a Re-Tweet ...... Once you quote it, it becomes your problem too !   Ouch

And, yes, the Original Asia reunion shows did very well in the US.  
They didn't play huge arenas, but the tours were actually profitable.  

 




Edited by altaeria - February 07 2022 at 15:34
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Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I agree, Silent nation was such a good album, getting good reviews, I was surprised, if not a bit shocked Downes dissolved that line up out of the blue. 
I'm not an expert but I guess he had a chance to get the original line up together again and that was too big an opportunity to miss . I saw one of the reunion gigs at Shepherds Bush Empire in London and it was packed to the rafters. Would the Payne line up have delivered that?

Back during that SILENT NATION tour across the USA, Geoff Downes posted a public blog about those shows... and many venues were tiny little clubs with disappointing attendance.   I remember he blatantly commented that he "needs to reassess the entire situation after the tour".   It all sounded quite bleak at the time.      



You gotta learn to quote properly, mine is only the first sentence. 

Asia had a bigger audience in Europe and Japan. 
Did the original Asia reunited get a big audience in the US? I still have my doubts. 

Like I said, it's how he did that was shocking, one day he's in one line-up, the next he was with the other. The Payne line-up was in shock from what I read, especially John Payne, the whole thing was painful for him. 
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Originally posted by altaeria altaeria wrote:

Back during that SILENT NATION tour across the USA, Geoff Downes posted a public blog about those shows... and many venues were tiny little clubs with disappointing attendance.   I remember he blatantly commented that he "needs to reassess the entire situation after the tour".   It all sounded quite bleak at the time.     

I remember catching them on the Aura tour back in 2000 and was told by a member of their crew that the situation was the same... I think the only time they got to play in front of a decent audiences was when they supported Kansas in Germany (I saw them in Hamburg)...
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I agree, Silent nation was such a good album, getting good reviews, I was surprised, if not a bit shocked Downes dissolved that line up out of the blue. 
I'm not an expert but I guess he had a chance to get the original line up together again and that was too big an opportunity to miss . I saw one of the reunion gigs at Shepherds Bush Empire in London and it was packed to the rafters. Would the Payne line up have delivered that?

Back during that SILENT NATION tour across the USA, Geoff Downes posted a public blog about those shows... and many venues were tiny little clubs with disappointing attendance.   I remember he blatantly commented that he "needs to reassess the entire situation after the tour".   It all sounded quite bleak at the time.      
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Apparently, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal, their singer since 2019, has decided to stop playing live shows due to covid concerns (or something like that).   

So this is why Marc Bonilla suddenly got involved.   

I always wondered why they never approached Robert Berry.   Granted, maybe they did at some point and it just wasn't a fit for all parties involved.    
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Surely Aqua is not their best (rather far from it), but in Silent Nation I think they shine, and Payne's singing is part of it (no competitor for Wetton, anyway, but who can fit that shoes?)

I agree, Silent nation was such a good album, getting good reviews, I was surprised, if not a bit shocked Downes dissolved that line up out of the blue. 

I'm not an expert but I guess he had a chance to get the original line up together again and that was too big an opportunity to miss . I saw one of the reunion gigs at Shepherds Bush Empire in London and it was packed to the rafters. Would the Payne line up have delivered that?

I don't know TBH, but that's not the issue here. It's not what he did (reunite with the old line up), it's how he did it. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Surely Aqua is not their best (rather far from it), but in Silent Nation I think they shine, and Payne's singing is part of it (no competitor for Wetton, anyway, but who can fit that shoes?)

I agree, Silent nation was such a good album, getting good reviews, I was surprised, if not a bit shocked Downes dissolved that line up out of the blue. 

I'm not an expert but I guess he had a chance to get the original line up together again and that was too big an opportunity to miss . I saw one of the reunion gigs at Shepherds Bush Empire in London and it was packed to the rafters. Would the Payne line up have delivered that?
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Originally posted by Heart of the Matter Heart of the Matter wrote:

Surely Aqua is not their best (rather far from it), but in Silent Nation I think they shine, and Payne's singing is part of it (no competitor for Wetton, anyway, but who can fit that shoes?)

I agree, Silent nation was such a good album, getting good reviews, I was surprised, if not a bit shocked Downes dissolved that line up out of the blue. 
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Surely Aqua is not their best (rather far from it), but in Silent Nation I think they shine, and Payne's singing is part of it (no competitor for Wetton, anyway, but to whom fit that shoes?)

Edited by Heart of the Matter - February 04 2022 at 12:53
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Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

The Payne era Asia deserves more respect, or at least i don't know why it's so ignored and forgotten about. I think the songwriting on some of those albums is great. Downes has chosen to work with some great players during those times. 

Why doesn't the Payne era receive more respect? Let's keep it simple:

John Wetton is one of the greatest rock vocalists EVER.

John Payne is a downright horrible vocalist, who I'm convinced was only brought on board in 1992 because he sounded like every other second-rate metal vocalist on MTV at the time. Believe me, I really wanted to like him because I loved the band and wanted them to stay active in the marketplace, but his performance on Aqua drove me away until Wetton returned. 

That's fine, I understand.
It's just my opinion that the Payne era is underrated, underappreciated. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

The Payne era Asia deserves more respect, or at least i don't know why it's so ignored and forgotten about. I think the songwriting on some of those albums is great. Downes has chosen to work with some great players during those times. 

Why doesn't the Payne era receive more respect? Let's keep it simple:

John Wetton is one of the greatest rock vocalists EVER.

John Payne is a downright horrible vocalist, who I'm convinced was only brought on board in 1992 because he sounded like every other second-rate metal vocalist on MTV at the time. Believe me, I really wanted to like him because I loved the band and wanted them to stay active in the marketplace, but his performance on Aqua drove me away until Wetton returned. 
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Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

Why isn't Howe playing? That would make it more interesting and worth it, but no Howe and Wetton is hardly Asia.

Steve Howe left Asia three times. He's played on 6 of their albums. Asia have released 12 albums. Howe is playing only in half of them (and on Aqua he is not even the main guitarist, he played some acoustic guitars here and there). 

The Payne era Asia deserves more respect, or at least i don't know why it's so ignored and forgotten about. I think the songwriting on some of those albums is great. Downes has chosen to work with some great players during those times. 
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