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Through Music To The Self

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 23 2021 at 09:19
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

...
At any rate Byrne very much approaches music from a Western perspective.

Hi,

Not always, you know ... when he won the OSCAR with Ryuichi Sakamoto for music on the film "The Last Emperor", it is well known that Ryuichi did the Western music, and David did the Eastern music ... they probably had a really good laugh about it, but in the end, the music fit the film beautifully, but a lot of credit goes to the director that KNEW HOW TO USE MUSIC, and also wanted his cinematographer (Storaro) to use different colors for different moments and reasons and time of the kid's life!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Hugh Manatee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 20:08
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... the whole thing about the Eastern Music is insane, and not sure that many of us in the Western World want to have a look at it ... just his showing the similarity to things in ragas which Western Music went on to develop ... is kinda nuts. But music in places like India, China were probably a lot more developed than we EVER gave them credit for!

I think it might have something to do with the way music developed, particularly the influence of religious beliefs and doctrines.

Music as it developed as an expression of devotion, I feel has been a lot more constrained in the west as opposed to the Eastern approach to where music fits into a life, and that contributes to the "looser" feel of Eastern music IMHO , which might make it harder for Western sensibilities to find a way into it.

At any rate Byrne very much approaches music from a Western perspective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 19:43
Hi,

Thx ... looking for that book now.

A lot of what you say, btw, is well explained and discussed in PMH's book. And the whole thing about the Eastern Music is insane, and not sure that many of us in the Western World want to have a look at it ... just his showing the similarity to things in ragas which Western Music went on to develop ... is kinda nuts. But music in places like India, China were probably a lot more developed than we EVER gave them credit for!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hugh Manatee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2021 at 18:23
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

...the writer's main concern is the story and development of what became known as meditative and inner personal music, and as such, he has the tendency to leave behind what is popular music and a lot of the Western Tradition that has become so commercialized and has helped detract people from their own inner mind and life. However, this could be considered a personal comment on my part and not a reality, and I will accept that.


Reading your overview reminded me of "How Music Works" by David Byrne.

Here's a the synopsis from the Amazon entry for the book which sums it up rather well.

"How Music Works is David Byrne’s remarkable and buoyant celebration of a subject he has spent a lifetime thinking about. In it he explores how profoundly music is shaped by its time and place, and he explains how the advent of recording technology in the twentieth century forever changed our relationship to playing, performing, and listening to music. Acting as historian and anthropologist, raconteur and social scientist, he searches for patterns—and shows how those patterns have affected his own work over the years with Talking Heads and his many collaborators, from Brian Eno to Caetano Veloso. Byrne sees music as part of a larger, almost Darwinian pattern of adaptations and responses to its cultural and physical context...Touching on the joy, the physics, and even the business of making music, How Music Works is a brainy, irresistible adventure and an impassioned argument about music’s liberating, life-affirming power."

Highly recommended for anyone who dedicates a lot of brain cells to thinking about music and what music "is".


Edited by Hugh Manatee - December 22 2021 at 18:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guy Guden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 05:06
  one of those "out of the body" moments in my life was in Summer 1982, visiting Munchen, putting together video for the pilot of SPACE PIRATE VIDEO, the TV version of my radio show SPACE PIRATE RADIO.  I connected with my friend Eckart Rahn at his label Kuckuck Records & met with Peter Michel Hamel there.  we had dinner at a Munich vegetarian restaurant called Erde Garten on the Schillerstrasse, I believe.  Peter's music has always been a part of SPACE PIRATE RADIO from Between on.  his album Organum is wonderful & Saint-Saens just slightly psychedelicized.  it was lovely to be there... 
https://twitch.tv/guygudenspacepirateradio
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2021 at 09:07
Hi,

Through Music To The Self
Peter Michael Hamel
Germany 1976 (English 1978)

There are not a whole lot of books that discuss music to the incredible detail that this one does.

I have had this book for some 30 years, and when I first read it, I wasn't ready for it, and its intense description and detail of music around the world and its history is one of those things that you hope to find one day, that helps make sense of a lot of things.

When I first read it, I thought it was something that was way too academic and beyond our ability to grasp and appreciate. Reading it today, I am astounded of its grasp of details and information about so much of the history of music and its development from the very first days, when music, performance, voice and dance were all one, and a part of the daily life of most folks. Today, music is something that we listen to in the edges of our minds, some "musak" at work, or occasionally as you drive by, some car playing out loud the pounding sounds of something or other, that you can only hope that it has the depth and meaning to the person that this books would likely state that it should and could.

I'm not sure that folks think that way. In most cases, and the book discusses it, in the western world we get caught up into a part of the music that we like, and we rarely, if ever, take a look at it in detail and find out what it is in it that attracts us ... I just like it, and that's that!

The book goes into the detail of a lot of history, and specially the movement in Germany in the late 60's and early 70's of the 20th Century and how it discussed and showed so much music from a lot of places around the world and how it was being studied, and it was not just something that was a bit of this and that ... it was intense and strong, and it was well defined, given the amazing list of lecturers, and professors and modern day composers that also participated and showed a lot about how their music came about, and in some cases, it also showed how the synthesizer developed from the early days, and was an instrument of value, that these days is laughed at and not discussed unless it is in some kind of Universitarian advanced course, where many of these arts are discussed.

From this point the book goes on to discuss in grand detail how a lot of the meditating processes used through out the East all brought out some voice work, and singing, and helped develop along the way, what became considered music and its incredible variations that Western Music is not capable of conceiving or understanding, and often thinks its not "music".

The cultural detail, here is amazing. From Bali, to Africa, to Japan, to India, to Tibet ... you name it ... is amazing and the differences are even more interesting when you end up understanding where it comes from and what its intent it. We do not consider this anymore when we listen to music, and how important and valuable it is, up to and including healing and other valuable bits and pieces.

And if that is not enough, he spends time giving us a whole bunch of exercises that we can do as a single person or within a group, also allowing us to know and understanding that some of these were done by various music and theater groups in that time and space. 

The historical story, from the early 60's for the next 20 years (when the book was published) gives us a wonderful over view of things that we could not otherwise see, if we were in America. A lot of the "electronic" materials and music in had a very nice amount of work when one considers the likes of Terry Riley and many others, however, in most cases, your local symphony does not think it is music and that people will never enjoy it!

If I have anything better to say about this, I will add it, but the writer's main concern is the story and development of what became known as meditative and inner personal music, and as such, he has the tendency to leave behind what is popular music and a lot of the Western Tradition that has become so commercialized and has helped detract people from their own inner mind and life. However, this could be considered a personal comment on my part and not a reality, and I will accept that.

One of the best books on "music" I have ever read, and something I am not sure that many folks can get their hands and minds on ... the book gets so detailed as wonder how does one get so far and into this stuff, and though the exercises mentioned might be simplified, the suggestion is that to be able to take all this further would take years and concentration that is literally impossible these days with work, family and everything else.

Great book. Worth it for any "musicologist" out there.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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